[gothic-l] Re: Gothic and Gotlandic Sailing

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at y..., "paul mortimer" <paulmortimer at p...> wrote:
> Dear Dirk,
>                     I sent an e-mail to the group yesterday which,
for some reason has not arrived; it recommended the book "Dark Age
Naval Power" by John Haywood. This certainly puts forward a very
powerful case for North Europeans being able to use sailing vessels
during the period under discussion.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Paul




Dear Paul,

I have really no objection to an use of sails at this time. However,
from the outline by Soren above, there seems to be no evidence for
the use of sails so far. Thus, given that this stone, which experts
date to the 9th century shows a sailing ship as well, I would be
cautious to redate it to the early 6th century on the basis of a
supposedly Phrygian cap on the head of the horseman. I just think
that making this horseman into an Arian Goths in Sweden would be one
sensational interpretation, but since this requires also to accept
another sensational interpretation, namely a sailing ship anno domini
500+AD is too much to ask.

cheers,
Dirk








>   --- In gothic-l at y..., "Bertil Haggman" <mvk575b at t...> wrote:
>   > For some the issue of sailing of Goths, Eruls and Vandals
>   > is very sensitive. Very early migration would have involved
>   > sailing ships. The pre-viking raids of the Goths and the
>   > Eruli on the Black Sea involved skilful sailing also into
>   > the eastern Mediterranean. The Vandals operated war fleets
>   > of sailing ships in the western Mediterranean long before the
>   > Vikings.
>
>
>   How do you know they operated sailing ships? Surely their
warships
>   were typical mediteranean galleys and typical mediterranean
freight
>   ships (with sails) as troop transporters.
>
>
>
>
>   >
>   > The Vandals were notable as a seagoing nation. Many have
>   > expressed surprise that a nation with a long history
>   > of overland migration developed such an aptitude with
>   > sails.
>
>
>
>   Given that an imperial edict had to be issued to prevent local
>   Spanish shipwrights from showing the Vandals how to built ships,
>   their knowledge of seafaring was certainly zero when they reached
the
>   Mediteranean.
>
>   Note, neither Vandals nor Goths or Eruli ever operated Viking
ships.
>   The seafaring skills of the Goths and Eruli on the Black Sea have
>   been described as a 'shambles' initially. But of course, I know
that
>   this argument (like all the rest) is lost on you and as genuine
pre-
>   Vikings ship-building must have been in their genes;-)
>
>   Dirk
>
>
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