[gothic-l] Re: Visi and Ostro

[Ingemar Nordgren]

   From: "Oskar Andersson" <o.andersson at gamlabyn.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Visi and Ostro


  > The discussion whether there were    Visi and Ostro already before the
  > sacking of Rome is  more academic than really vital. Before 376 we had
  > Greutungi (with some other allied tribes) which in fact respond to the
  > later name Ostro. In Dacia we had Vesi-Tervingi who later were called
  > Visi. Athanaric never was a king but a kindins and the first Visigothic
  > kingdom came with Alaric. The break between Greutungi (Ostro) and
  > Vesi(Visi) appeared probably around 269 but the kingship only continued
  > among Greutungi and allies. Theoderics later kingdom is something quite
  > else and comparable only to Alarics.

Oskar wrote:

"What is you evidence for this? How are you able to identify the
Visigoths of Dacia
as the same Goths in Gaul and Spain later? Pretty much the same question
relates to
the Greuthungi and them responding to the term Ostro! I am searching for
some continuum
between the Goths of the Black Sea and those of Italy and Gaul/Spain. I
am just saying that
to me it seems that both Visigoths and Ostrogoths consisted of both of
Tervingi and Greuthungi
elements, and that I find it oversimplied and pretty erroneous to make a
relationship between
Tervingi and Visi and Greuthungi and Ostro.
Naturally I am interested in what evidence you back this up with!"

Hi Oskar!

I think you make it too complicated. Agreeed there were Greutungian
groups as well as Alans, Vandals and even Huns in the mainly
Vesi-Tervingian groups that entered the empire in 376 and around. In
Sweden we have a lot of immigrants like in other countries but we are
still mainly Swedes. The mainpart of the Greutungi and allies were ruled
for a long time by the Huns and entered the empire first about a hundred
years later. It means the first wave  of Goths heading for Rome and Gaul
   were   descendants of the Vesi-group  in general even if it was  a
little mixed  but the name Visi -not Vesi - is not applied before
Alaric. In the same way the Greutungi-alliance descendants went for
Italy with Theoderic but as far as I know the name Ostro  was applied
by Cassiodorus already before the Huns, but it may be an
afterconstruction of course. In any case the Greutungi with allies and
the Ostro are of the same heritage broadly spoken.

Kindly
Ingemar



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