[gothic-l] Re: Goths, Eruli in the East

[einarbirg]

--- In gothic-l at y..., "Oskar Andersson" <o.andersson at g...> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> although not adressed to me personally...
> 
> *snip*
> 
> > > Once again, East Scandinavians have nothing to do with East 
> > Germanic 
> > > people.
> > 
> >   Hæ Dirk.  Would you then call the Heruli going to Scandinavia; 
> > North Germanic people?? If so, then the Ostrogoths were North 
> > Germanic people too??
> 
> Einar, what do you base such an opinion on? We lately had the 
discussion 
> on this very list that we really can't establish an ethnogenesis of 
the Ostrogoths 
> until just prior to the conquest of Italy under Theodoric in 
488/89, and there's 
> no way of connecting that one to Scandinavia! Go check the archive 
for more information! 
> This very question is of crucial importance as many an author seems 
to be referring 
> to Visi/Ostro prior to their real ethnogeneses.
> Look especially for Andreas Schwarcz posts on POLITICAL 
ethnogenesis rather than 
> a "biological one"!

  Einar; Hæ Oskar..I think you misunderstand me.I was not expressing 
my opinion but asking Dirk a question.  Are you saying that the 
Heruli and Ostrogoths are not classified as East Germanic people? I 
was not connecting the Ostrogoths to Scandinavia. Just saying that 
part of the Heruli who were East Germanic people seem to have 
(according to Procopius) settled among East Scandinavian people. It 
is rather obvious that the migration was to an area populated by East 
Scandinavians but not to Norway. With this I am answering Dirks claim 
that East Scandinavians had nothing to do with East Scandinavian 
people.                                                               
We have historical sources about this migration though some scholars 
have made it their mission to discredit that information.They have 
not proved Procopius was wrong,manipulating or lying about that  
matter.
> 
> > In my view the Heruli group going to Scandinavia must be 
classified 
> > as East Germanic people just like the Ostrogoths are classified 
as 
> > such.
> 
> There are no conclusive proofs of Heruls going to Scandinavia at 
all, just as Dirk 
> has said all the time! 

  Einar; A answer for this can be seen above.

I have not met many a famous Scandinavian historian 
> dealing with the subject or presenting evidence for such a 
migration - meaning 
> that if a migration actually took place it caused a grand shift in 
Scandinavian history that might reasonably 
> be attributed tot he Heruls. There's no way of proving that Heruls 
moved to Scandinavia [Thule] 
> and were eloquent enough to distribute a "new culture and 
religion." (Though there's still the 
> possibility that some of them actually did migrate to Thule!)
> I do, however, appreciate the theories put forth by Tore and Troels 
though, even if I do not 
> entirely agree with them!
> 
> > The Heruli settled among East Scandinavian people. Anyway I think 
> > that it is generally accepted by scholars that this Heruli 
migration 
> > took place.I understand it so after reading the posts on Germ. 
and 
> > Gothic-L.
> 
> Einar, would you please put forth the names of the scholars 
advancing this theory, except 
> Tore and Troels? I am interested in studying their works for a more 
complete appreciation 
> of th matter! Moreover, there seems to be no scholar specialised in 
the history of Heruls... or 
> am I wrong? From where do you draw this inference from?

  Einar; There might be no scholars advancing or promoting the theory 
but if scholars do normally accept that Procopius was right about the 
migration then they must too accept that the Heruli settled in the 
place they migrated too. Is that not obvious? But it might be that 
most scholars are staying neutral to this question. I have no idea.   
Other members could maybe answer this question better and the rest of 
the questions.

Bless, Einar
> 
> And they settled among East Scandinavian people.
> > So when you say that East Germanic people has nothing to do with 
East 
> > Scandinavian people then you must be expressing your privat 
opinion.
> > Most scholars do not seem to agree with you.
> 
> Again Einar, which scholars exactly are you referring to? 
Furthermore, what says that if some 
> Heruls actually moved to Thule that they did not settle on what we 
TODAY call West Scandinavian 
> territory, like Eastern Norway? The Kattegatt region as a whole 
seems like a prosperous area on the whole 
> during the Migratory period!

 
> 
> > > Dirk
> > >  
> > > 
> > > PS  Why do you always have to dig up such old authors? Some 
> > > significant short commings of Guthmundson's book were revealed 
on 
> > the 
> > > Germanic list some time ago.
> > 
> >  Einar*******
> > 
> >  ***  What shortcomings specifically are you talking about? 
> > And have you read his book?
> > 
> > I would like to if not opposed by the owner of the list(because 
this 
> > is maybe considered off-topic) to answer you in more detail 
tomorrow 
> > and clarify a few things. I admit that my presentation of Barðis 
> > ideas have been chaotic and not so good. That does not make his 
ideas 
> > wrong.
> > 
> > Bless Einar.
> 
> Best,
> Oskar


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