[gothic-l] The extent of Ermanarik's realm

[george knysh]

--- Bertil Haggman <mvk575b at tninet.se> wrote:
>
> The hymn bit about Jordanes seems to be
> exaggerating things. The question is of course
> what Jordanes referred to when he wrote
> about Scythia and Germania being included
> among the territories of the Regnum Ostro-
> gothorum.
> My references are Jordanes, Professor
> Lars Hermodsson and RLK. It is interesting
> to note your opinions underneath. They of
> course reflect reductionist theses and as
> there is no possibility knowing exactly
> what Jordanes meant by Scythia and
> Germania views of various researchers
> differ.


*****GK: As a matter of fact it is possible to know
"exactly" what Jordanes meant by "Germania" and
"Scythia". Kindly reread GETICA II-V, and you will see
that Germania includes all the territories between
Gaul and the r. Vistula, and west of a line extending
southwestward from the source of the Vistula to the
point where the Danube begins to be called "Ister",
which leaves Transylvania and the Gepids on the
"Scythian" side. The northern boundary is the sea. As
for Scythia it extends eastward from the Vistula etc.
border with Germania, as far as the Caspian Sea and
beyond, and as far as Persia. Its northern boundary is
also the sea, and the southern boundary includes the
Black Sea coastline, and stretches into the Caucasus
area. It is these huge territories, from Rhine to
Caspian, and from the northern Ocean to the Black Sea
and to Persia that Jordanes claimed to have been
subject to Hermanaric. I think that Maenchen-Helfen's
reference to Jordanes' fantasy as a "hymn" is a very
kind judgement, all things considered. Either we take
Jordanes at face value, and then his contention is
simply ridiculous, or we say that he didn't "really"
mean ALL the nations of "Germania" and "Scythia" when
he said "all the nations of Germania and Scythia". But
in that case we don't really know what he meant, and
must try to reconstruct reality on the basis of a
critical examination of other sources, including other
passages of Jordanes. Which inevitably leads to
serious "reductionism", but brings us much closer to
historical truth.******


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