[gothic-l] The extent of Ermanarik's realm

[Bertil Haggman]

Well, maybe Jordanes did mean different
things when writing about Germania. The
commentator of the recent translation of _Getica_,
into Swedish, Andreas Nordin, in his commentary
indicates that there is limited historical knowledge
about Ermanarik. He created, so Nordin, an Ostrogothic
confederation of peoples subjugated. Personally
I think that is a rather good description.

Actually Jordanes does enumrate a number of
peoples under Ermanarik but they are all rather
tough to decipher.

Goltescytha

This could possibly taken as meaning "gold people"
(Ural). "Scytha" seems to be added by mistake by some
scribe.

Thiudos
Inaunxis

Maybe living close to the Golte(scytha).

Vasinabroncae

Those living on flat land with rich grazing ground, good access to
water and with marshes.

Merens
Mordens

These two are usually identified as peoples living along the Volga.
This was one of the reasons I stated earlier that Ermanarik's realm
may have as its furthest east the River Volga.

Imniscaris

A possible explanation of this people name could be the beekeepers.

Rogas
Tadzans

R. an T. also maybe living along the River Volga

Athaul
Navego
Bubegenae
Coldae

These four people I have no further on.

Veneti
(having three names Veneti, Antes, Sclaveni)

The Veneti has been explained as the Wends. Antes a
Caucasian people (?) and the Sclaveni the Slavs.

"Historical truth" is a variation of different views. Those
who believe they have attained knowledge of "historical
truth" often end up in trouble.

Could you please advise the exact reference of the
Germania and Scythia reference?

Bertil Haggman



> As a matter of fact it is possible to know
> "exactly" what Jordanes meant by "Germania" and
> "Scythia". Kindly reread GETICA II-V, and you will see
> that Germania includes all the territories between
> Gaul and the r. Vistula, and west of a line extending
> southwestward from the source of the Vistula to the
> point where the Danube begins to be called "Ister",
> which leaves Transylvania and the Gepids on the
> "Scythian" side. The northern boundary is the sea. As
> for Scythia it extends eastward from the Vistula etc.
> border with Germania, as far as the Caspian Sea and
> beyond, and as far as Persia. Its northern boundary is
> also the sea, and the southern boundary includes the
> Black Sea coastline, and stretches into the Caucasus
> area. It is these huge territories, from Rhine to
> Caspian, and from the northern Ocean to the Black Sea
> and to Persia that Jordanes claimed to have been
> subject to Hermanaric. I think that Maenchen-Helfen's
> reference to Jordanes' fantasy as a "hymn" is a very
> kind judgement, all things considered. Either we take
> Jordanes at face value, and then his contention is
> simply ridiculous, or we say that he didn't "really"
> mean ALL the nations of "Germania" and "Scythia" when
> he said "all the nations of Germania and Scythia". But
> in that case we don't really know what he meant, and
> must try to reconstruct reality on the basis of a
> critical examination of other sources, including other
> passages of Jordanes. Which inevitably leads to
> serious "reductionism", but brings us much closer to
> historical truth.



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