[gothic-l] Re: Dieupentale/(in)Diupindala

[faltin2001]

> 
> Hi Dirk
> 
> These villages don't make up compact settlement areas. We can find 
two or
> three villages 'connected' to each other, but the great part of 
them are
> dispersed. We find these places in the valleys of Garonne and Tarn, 
near the
> town of Toulouse, Albi, Carcassonne ...


Hi Philippe,

these are certainly areas where one would expect Gothic settlements.




> 
> 
> 
> > For different other villages in this part of France, Dauzat &
> Rostang wrote
> > :
> > Aucamville : 'D'un nom de femme germ. Auka- (got. aukan, 
augmenter)
> et lat.
> > villa'
> > Escatalens : 'gothique skathaling, personne nuisible (allemand
> Schadling)
> > [Gamillscheg]' or
> > Moussoulens : '(Moschelingus,934 ; Mociolens,1174) : nom d'homme
> germ.
> > *Muskila, de Musco et suff -ing [Gamillscheg]' ...
> > We find a lot of villages with those sorts of name in this part of
> France,
> > especially with the -ens ending [for -ing(os) -> lat. -ingus] but
> not in
> > Provence and not in the rest of France.
> 
> 
> 
> Those place names that incorporate a Germanic personal name, how 
sure
> is it that they are of Gothic and not Frankish origin?
> 
> Frankish colonization expanded only in the North of France. The 
river Loire
> was a frontier and continued to be a frontier between Northern 
French
> (langue d'oïl) and Southern French (Langue d'Oc).



Did Frankish influence not expand southwards after the Franks 
destroyed the Visigothic kingdom at Toulouse in 507AD? The Franks 
certainly pushed into the areas of Marseille, Arles etc., but I am 
not certain about the south-west.


> 
> 
> 
> > I am an Alsacian, what do you mean about the place
> name 'Dieffenthal', near
> > the town I'm living ? :-)
> 
> 
> That shows that the name was used by the Alamani as well. In fact, I
> think you would find several examples of such a name in several
> Germanic speaking areas. Alos, the '-ingen' ending in names that you
> mentioned above is also regarded as typical Alamanic.
> 
> For me, we should make a difference between '-ingos' and '-inga' 
ending in
> the place name formation.
> The two endings are plural forms with the meaning of 'people(s) 
of'. In
> France, we find these suffixes in several regions of France :
> '-ingos', as plural of East Germanic languages was 'translated' 
into latin
> form as '-ingus', so as masc. form.
> we find it in South-West of France with the '-ens' or '-enx' form,
> in the area of Lyon and Savoie with the '-eins' form,
> in Burgundy with the'-ans' form,
> in french speaking Switzerland with the '-ens' form.
> These forms correspond to Italian '-engo' (in 'Marengo','Buttanengo'
> [cf:[gothic-l] Gothic Placenames?] for example)
> 
> '-inga', as plural of West Germanic languages was translated into 
latin form
> as '-ange', so as fem. form.
> in Lorraine, with '-ange' form (also translating German ending '-
ingen'),
> in Burgundy, with also the '-ange' or '-anche' form.
> in Alsace, with the '-ingen' form (plur. '-inga' -> German form '-
ingen')
> 
> For '-ingos' forms, we can presume for '-ens' or '-enx' forms of 
South-West
> of France, corresponding to the late visigothic kingdom, that they 
are
> Gothic settlements; for the others '-ingos' forms, we can also 
presume that
> they are Burgondian settlements according to the idea that 
Burgondians spoke
> an East Germanic language.
> In that case, '-inga' forms in Burgundy ('-ange') should be as 
Alaman's
> settlements.   
 
 
In fact the '-ingen' endings extent far beyond Alamannic areas, but 
assumed some significance in distinguishing supposedly Alamannic '-
ingen' settlements from Frankish '-heim' settlements. But as I said 
there are many '-ingen' placenames in North Germany. My hometown is 
called Wittingen (North Germany/Lower Saxony) and is first recorded 
in 783AD as 'Witinge', while old 'gau' (area) names in this region 
are 'Doringo', 'Bardingo' etc. 


cheers,
Dirk





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