[gothic-l] Re: ZDF Program on the Goths

[Tore Gannholm]

>
>  > Dirk,
>>
>>  Your statement is not quite correct. I think it should be "research
>>  nowadays have modified the theory that they came from Scandinavia"
>>
>>  As we earlier have discussed on this forum there was a common
>culture
>>  in northern Poland, Gotland and coastal areas of southern Sweden in
>>  the centuries before the forming of what we today call the Wielbark
>>  culture.
>
>
>Tore,
>
>that simply cannot be correct, or are you arguing that the Okcywie
>culture was also present in Scandinavia? To give you the answer - it
>was not and it has nothing to do with any Scandinavian culture or
>region. Thus the Wielbark culture, which included the Goths is based
>on a culture that is clearly distinct and completely unrelated to any
>Scandinavian culture! Surely, contacts existed, but these were
>spuradic and alien to the Gothic Wielbark culture (see Bierbrauer on
>that)
>
>
>
>
>
>>  We don't know who dominated that culture. There is clear evidence
>>  that there was movements in both directions between Gotland and
>that
>>  area.
>
>
>Which is not surprising, but archaeology can show conclusively that
>the Goths as a tribe or better and more correctly the Wielbark
>culture as an archaeological group and not even the predecessor of
>the Wielbark culture came from Gotland or anywhere else in
>Scandinavia.
>
>
>
>>  Further the Wielbark culture was formed by the people at time
>>  time living in northern Poland.
>
>
>That is undisputed - the Wielbark culture and the Gothic tribe formed
>in a clearly defined and identified area of northern Poland and
>nowhere else. BTW, even the latest Brockhaus entry on the Goths has
>now abandoned the old thesis of a Scandinavian origin of the Goths.
>
>Dirk

Dirk,
It is not only German scholars that are authorities on Scandinavian 
archaeology.

You can't just disregard Swedish professors on Scandinavina archaeology.

I think they are closer to this subject.

I still point out Kaliff's book "Gothic connections" as a very good summary.
I was recommended this book by the professor in Archaeology in 
Uppsala Ola Kylberg. He is very knowledgeable in this area.

When I read your statements I get the impression that you only look 
at one century at a time.

I fully agree that the Jordanes story with 3 ships is only a myth.
However that does not disqualify the archaeologically close links in 
the area from the late Bronze age.

Gotlands close relation to that area is still earlier. The amber has 
probably been a common factor for the increased trade and movement of 
people.

Professor Birger Nerman who during the wars was professor in 
archaeology in Estonia (later in charge of the Historical museum in 
Stockholm) and supervised  many excavations there writes in 
Fornvännen 1954 that from younger Bronze age he has found plenty of 
Gotlandic artefacts and graves in Kurland, now part of Lituania, 
which he takes as Gotlandic trading posts.

Tore

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