[gothic-l] Re: ZDF Program on the Goths

[george knysh]

--- faltin2001 <dirk at smra.co.uk> wrote:
> --- In gothic-l at y..., george knysh <gknysh at y...>
> wrote:
> > ******GK: Poles contend that the etymology of the
> > place name near Gdynia which gave its name to the
> > pre-Wielbark Oksywie culture is Old
> Scandinavian...
> > Allegedly "OXIHOVED", meaning "ox's head". Can our
> > Scandinavian list participants verify this?*****
> >
>
>
> Dear George,
>
> you should not fall for such stories. There is no
> way that a
> placename like Oxthoefte goes back 2000 and more
> years to
> Scandinavian immigrants. The second part of the name
> '-hoeft' does
> not mean head, but farm (Hof or Ge-hoeft) in German.
> Oxhoeft means
> simply Oxen farm. The area was settled and
> cultivated in the 13th
> century by Frisians and the placename Ossnhof,
> Osnhoven still exists
> in Frisia.
>
> cheers,
> Dirk

******GK(NEW): Hello Dirk. I think you're putting
words in my mouth here. I merely cited the opinion of
a Kashubian website about the etymology of "Oksywie".
"Old Scandinavian" does not mean "Gothic" and does not
imply an origin 2000 years old or more... As a matter
of fact these Kashubians note that the history of the
place is only known from the early 13th century.=====
But as long as we're talking about the problem of the
Goths and where they came from. I think it's pretty
clear that there can be no longer any question of some
massive migration across the Baltic from Scandinavia.
The overwhelmibg majority of the carriers of the
Wielbark culture were undoubtedly descendants of
"local" populations. There is no credible evidence
(esp. toponymic or hydronymic) that these populations
were primarily "Germanic", save to the extent that
they later had a Yastorf-Przeworsk element (along with
many others). They were not proto-Slavic either. What
cannot be ruled out and is in fact quite probable is
the arrival of a relatively small (perhaps even quite
small) number of migrants from Scandinavia at some
point prior to the "Gothic" push towards the
southeast, migrants who became a leading component of
the historical "Goths", and whose traditions,
reflected in Jordanes' story, were foisted upon the
entire people, or at least upon that reshuffled people
of various origins which eventually migrated to Italy.
There are some excellent historical analogies
available for such a process. Neither Bierbrauer nor
any other source can refute it, and as far as I know,
Polish archaeologists are quite comfortable with the
notion. The problem of the origin of the extant
"Gothic" language is a separate issue altogether.*****

>
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Access Your PC from Anywhere
Full setup in 2 minutes! - Free Download
http://us.click.yahoo.com/MxtVhB/2XkDAA/_ZuFAA/wWMplB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/