[gothic-l] Re: Saúrts/Surtr in phonological darkness or light?

[Troels Brandt]

--- In gothic-l at y..., "konrad_oddsson" <konrad_oddsson at y...> wrote:
> This message is for Troel, Bertil and Einar, who were previously 
> discussing the name "Surtr" in connection with Gothic, and for 
> anyone else with an interest in this topic. I find forms such 
> as "Swartus" or "Swartw-" to be unlikely for the simple reason that 
> Gothic phonology tends to have "aú" (ON."o") before "r".

I am not able to say if you are right or not, but this thread was 
started by my question about the 6th century Heruls Suartuas based on 
Grimms claim that Swartus should be the Gothic word for the god 
Surtur. This was from a list of Grimms Gothic inventions presented by 
Mat?aius in Message 6266.

> Whereas 
> Norse shows both primitive "u" a "o" in positions before "r", 
fourth 
> century Gothic shows "aú"(compare N."þeir urðu", N."hann er 
orðinn", 
> N."urt" for Gothic "waúrts", N."orð" for Gothic "waúrd", "at yrkja" 
> and "hann orti" for forms of Gothic "waúrkjan"). On the basis of 
> this I am inclined to regard the form "Saúrts" as more likely for 
> Gothic. Also, a simple adjectival form like "black/dark" would 
> probably be confusing to even native speakers of a language - 
> sentences like "Black is coming soon" would be vague.

SurtR never became a usual name either, but nevertheless it was used 
for the god. The colors green and white are used as names. 

> Compare also 
> the fact that the name is "Surtr" in Norse, while the adjective 
> "svartr" is so common as to be in daily use in Scandinavian tongues 
> today. 

The usual Danish adjective for black, "sort", is very close to "surt".

> "Saúrts" would be declined: N. Saúrts, A. Saúrt, D. Saúrta, 
> G. Saúrtis. Compare also that the Norse verb for to "grow 
black/dark 
> is "sortna", again showing that Norse can have "o" (Gothic aú) as 
> well as "u" in positions where we would expect only "aú" before "r" 
> in fourth century Gothic. 
> 
> I would like to know your thoughts and responses to "Saúrts" as the 
> Gothic name for the firey enemy of the divine ones. 

Unfortunately I am not able to give you that response as I was the 
one who had to ask.

Regards
Troels


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