[gothic-l] Re: Greutung, Terving, Rus

[Francisc Czobor]

--- In gothic-l at y..., åÇÏÒÏ× ÷ÌÁÄÉÍÉÒ <vegorov at i...> wrote:
> I didn't expect my questions regarding history of ancient Russia 
and origins of the ethnonym Rus to provoke a "ping-pong play". I mean 
the lively dialog between Francisc Czobor and George Knysh.
> 
> First of all I have to thank Francisc for his explanation of 
Greutung and Terving. The explanation looks exhaustive and persuasive 
but - it is inadequate. Let's start from the result. The result is 
that Greutungs were "dwellers of the stony plains" meaning Ukrainian 
Steppes (I guess, more exactly "plains along the northern coast of 
the Black Sea" should be referred). But where do plains come in? With 
Francisc's explanation, only stones (from *greut) are of concern. 
Francisc, did you ever see Ukrainian Steppes along the northern coast 
of the Black Sea? I did. A lot of plains and none of stones! Well, 
these are only emotions. More essential are the following questions. 
Whence do we know the word "Greutung"? To which time does the first 
reference relate? What is its original source? Is this source 
actually Germanic (e.g. not a reference in a Roman text)? The same of 
Terving. Why Jordan does not know Greutungs and Tervings? Sure, you 
may consider me as a bore. I don't mind, but all these questions must 
be answered if we really want to find truth.
> 
> 
I am not a specialist in either linguistics, history or archaeology. 
I presented shortly, from my memory, the conclusions of a discussion 
on this Gothic list some years ago. With patience and luck you could 
find those messages in the archive of the Gothic list. I think there 
are also references quoted. In any case, the words "greutung" 
and "terving" appear in Latin texts. They are not found in the extant 
Gothic texts (Silver Bible, Skeireins, Gothic Calendar, Deeds of 
Arezzo and Naples, Runic inscriptions in Gothic).
It was surprising also for me the association of stones/gravel with 
Ukrainian Steppes, because I saw them too, and you're right: a lot of 
plains, no stones. In my mind, this could apply rather for the west 
coast of Black Sea (e.g. today's Dobrudja, called in antiquity Moesia 
Inferior or Scythia Minor).

Francisc


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