[gothic-l] Re: Tracing the Eruli

[george knysh]

--- "Dr. Dirk Faltin <dirk at smra.co.uk>"
<dirk at smra.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > We will likely never know, but there are
hundreds
> of
> > > reasons one
> > > could come up with
> > Maybe the Varnians did not want
> > > them?
> >
> > GK: More likely the Varnians accepted the Eruli
> > of Varnian origin. The rest then moved on.
>
>
>
>
> George, we have absolutely no evidence that their
> where Eruli of
> Varinain origin or that the Varnians accepted any
> Eruli. I don't know
> where you got that from.
>
> GK: /.../Since you must obviously admit, as you do
> in another post, that the Eruli were of
heterogeneous
> composition, there is absolutely no evidence that
the
> Varnians must be excluded as elements of the
Danubian
> (or even East European for that matter) Erulian
> community; and from the "route to Thule" it is a
> wholly permissible inference that there were
families
> of Slavs, Varnians, Dani, Gauts etc. among the
> "Eruli".



The problem is that we have no knowledge of their
ethnic composition,
but our best guess must be that they contained
non-Germanic steppe
nomads (perhaps Alans, Taifali,

*****GK: Taifali as “non-Germanic steppe nomads”?
Where did you get that from? I agree with Wolfram and
Mahomedov that the Taifali were a Germanic people.
Wolfram saw them as a “Vandalic” group.*****

Huns etc) and Germanic Heruls. Of
various Germanic sub-groups we know nothing.

*****GK: My view is that the “Eruli”, esp. in the East
were an artificial (if one may use this word)
conglomerate of various energetic adventurers from
many Germanic areas, including (and perhaps
preponderantly) Scandinavia, whose name was that of
their united aristocracies (“the worthy ones”). We
lack written information about their internal
structure, but the archaeology of Eastern Gothia in
Ukraine and Moldavia indicates that many Germanic
groups participated in these ethnogeneses. To this
polymorphous Germanic core were added elements from
other ethna as time passed. After they settled on the
Danube such contacts and integrations must have
continued. As they did with the Goths of course.******



So you prefer theories according to which the Heruls
went on to
become the founders of the Vendel culture and the
Viking Age,
possibly were among the first settlers of Iceland
(although Einar may
have given up on this theory), brought the Aesir
religion and scaldic
poetry to Scandinavia?

*****GK: I’ll leave it up to Troels, Einar, and Tore
(add Ingemar to this list too) to specify. My only
point as a non-expert is that the Eruli who
(re)-migrated to Scandinavia contributed much to
subsequent developments there, and did not simply
disappear (except for their ethnonym). I would not
rule out the possibility (or probability) that even in
classical Erulian times in the south, many of their
components were aware of their “other” identities or
origins (Gautic, Varnian, Danic, etc etc etc) and may
simply have reverted to these subsequently.*****






__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/