[gothic-l] Re: GUTANI WIHAILAG

[Terje Ellefsen]

Hi

The word "Goth" is not Gothic, they would say something like: "sa guta" for
"the goth". However, texts about Goths weren't written in Gothic, but other
languages like Latin.

Terje


>From: "Ravi Chaudhary" <ravichaudhary2000 at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: gothic-l at yahoogroups.com
>To: gothic-l at yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [gothic-l] Re: GUTANI WIHAILAG
>Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:52:53 -0000
>
>To both of  you
>
>How do one derive Goth from Gut- ane.?
>
>Ravi
>
>
>
>-- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor" <fericzobor at y...>
>wrote:
> > Hi, Dirk,
> >
> > I don't dispute the reading 'gutane', I just mean that, based on
>what
> > we know about Wulfila's Gothic language, 'gutane' means rather 'of
> > the Goths' than 'good' (which would be goths, goda-). jer 'year' in
> > Gothic is neutrum, like the German 'Jahr', and if you wish to
> > somebody 'ein gutes Jahr', this would be in Gothic 'godata jer',
>and
> > not 'gutane jer'. 'gutane jer' could mean only 'year of the Goths'
> > (?!)
> >
> > Francisc
> >
> > --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <dirk at s...> wrote:
> > > Hi Francisc,
> > >
> > > I have no linguistic knowledge and rely only on secondary
>sources.
> > > The reading 'GUTANE JER WEIH HAILAG' I found in a recent article
>by
> > > A. Schwarcs "Cult and Religion among the Tervingi and the
>Visigoths
> > > and their conversion to Christianity" in 'The Visigoths from the
> > > Migration to the 7th Century: An Ethnographic Perspective', Ed.
>P.
> > > Heather, 2000.
> > >
> > > p. (page numbers not on my copy) "A recent study one by Hermann
> > > Reichert with a thorough scrutiny of th eoriginal in Bucarest in
> > 1992
> > > gives as the most plausible reading of this runic
> > inscription "gutane
> > > jer weih hailag", a blessing for a fruitful and prosperous
>year..."
> > >
> > >
> > > The Runenprojekt of the University of Kiel in Germany also
>records
> > > the following alternative interpretations:
> > >
> > > Gutani¿ w³hhailag
> > > sacrosanctum of gothic women/female warriors(?)
> > > Antonsen, Elmer H. 1975
> > >
> > > Gutaniom hailag
> > > dedicated to the Gothic Mothers (=female guardian spirits of the
> > > Goths)
> > > Krogmann, Willy. 1978
> > >
> > > (G)ut(an³) (¿) (1Z) (w³)hh(a)i(l)ag ...
> > > the Goths' protector (=king) (1Z) [be/is] sacrosanct ...
> > > Isb&%escu, Mihai. 1960
> > >
> > > guttani hailag wiko
> > > holy song of the Goths - Wiko (=rota of the great cult of the
> > tribe)
> > > Gutenbrunner, Siegfried. 1964
> > >
> > > Gutani¿ w³h hailag
> > > the holy relic of gothic priestesses (=the [altar] ring)
> > > Johnsen, Ingrid Sanness., 1971
> > >
> > > Gutan³ (¿) [1Z] (w³)h hailag
> > > the Goths' hereditary property - (1Z) - consecrated [and]
> > inviolable
> > > Krause, Wolfgang, Herbert Jankuhn.
> > > 1966
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > What is clear from this list is that the reading and the
> > translation
> > > is rather uncertain. However, in contrast to Reichert's latest
> > study
> > > not all of these translations above will have been based on a
>close
> > > analysis of the original ring, so that some of them likely suffer
> > > from a misreading of the runes.
> > >
> > > cheers
> > > Dirk
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor"
> > <fericzobor at y...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hi, Dirk,
> > > >
> > > > I write 'GUTANI WIHAILAG' because it is in Gothic and because
> > it's
> > > > from my country, Romania. In fact, the runes read GUTANI?
> > WIHAILAG,
> > > > where ? is for the illegible rune at the place of the fracture
>of
> > > the
> > > > necklace. I know that there are still controversies regarding
>the
> > > > interpretation of this text, but I personally think that it is
> > not
> > > > very plausible the interpretation of GUTANI as 'gutane'
>= 'good'.
> > > > First: indeed, in German 'gut' = 'good', but in Gothic 'good'
>is
> > > > goths/goda-, so the genitive plural, weak adjectival
>declension,
> > > > would be 'godane', not 'gutane'.
> > > > Second: it doesn't make sense in this context to put the
> > > > adjective 'good' in genitive plural. But the substantive "Goth"
> > in
> > > > genitive plural - "of the Goths" is more meaningful.
> > > > So I still prefer to consider that the most plausible
> > > interpretation
> > > > of GUTANI is 'gutane' = 'of the Goths'.
> > > >
> > > > With best regards,
> > > > Francisc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <dirk at s...> wrote:
> > > > > ...
> > > > > Hi Francisc,
> > > > >
> > > > > I see that you write 'GUTANI WIHAILAG'. Did you know that the
> > > > latest
> > > > > investigation on the original ring suggests that the best
> > reading
> > > > of
> > > > > the inscription is 'gutane jer weih hailag', which is a
> > blessing
> > > > for
> > > > > a good year, with 'gutane' meaning 'good' . Hence, the name
>of
> > > the
> > > > > Goths is probably not on the ring.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Dirk
>

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