[gothic-l] Re: GUTANI WIHAILAG

[Ravi Chaudhary]

To both of  you 

How do one derive Goth from Gut- ane.?

Ravi



-- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor" <fericzobor at y...> 
wrote:
> Hi, Dirk,
> 
> I don't dispute the reading 'gutane', I just mean that, based on 
what 
> we know about Wulfila's Gothic language, 'gutane' means rather 'of 
> the Goths' than 'good' (which would be goths, goda-). jer 'year' in 
> Gothic is neutrum, like the German 'Jahr', and if you wish to 
> somebody 'ein gutes Jahr', this would be in Gothic 'godata jer', 
and 
> not 'gutane jer'. 'gutane jer' could mean only 'year of the Goths' 
> (?!)
> 
> Francisc
> 
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <dirk at s...> wrote:
> > Hi Francisc,
> > 
> > I have no linguistic knowledge and rely only on secondary 
sources. 
> > The reading 'GUTANE JER WEIH HAILAG' I found in a recent article 
by 
> > A. Schwarcs "Cult and Religion among the Tervingi and the 
Visigoths 
> > and their conversion to Christianity" in 'The Visigoths from the 
> > Migration to the 7th Century: An Ethnographic Perspective', Ed. 
P. 
> > Heather, 2000. 
> > 
> > p. (page numbers not on my copy) "A recent study one by Hermann 
> > Reichert with a thorough scrutiny of th eoriginal in Bucarest in 
> 1992 
> > gives as the most plausible reading of this runic 
> inscription "gutane 
> > jer weih hailag", a blessing for a fruitful and prosperous 
year..."
> > 
> > 
> > The Runenprojekt of the University of Kiel in Germany also 
records 
> > the following alternative interpretations:
> > 
> > Gutani¿ w³hhailag 
> > sacrosanctum of gothic women/female warriors(?) 
> > Antonsen, Elmer H. 1975
> > 
> > Gutaniom hailag 
> > dedicated to the Gothic Mothers (=female guardian spirits of the 
> > Goths) 
> > Krogmann, Willy. 1978
> > 
> > (G)ut(an³) (¿) (1Z) (w³)hh(a)i(l)ag ... 
> > the Goths' protector (=king) (1Z) [be/is] sacrosanct ...
> > Isb&%escu, Mihai. 1960
> > 
> > guttani hailag wiko
> > holy song of the Goths - Wiko (=rota of the great cult of the 
> tribe) 
> > Gutenbrunner, Siegfried. 1964
> > 
> > Gutani¿ w³h hailag 
> > the holy relic of gothic priestesses (=the [altar] ring) 
> > Johnsen, Ingrid Sanness., 1971
> > 
> > Gutan³ (¿) [1Z] (w³)h hailag 
> > the Goths' hereditary property - (1Z) - consecrated [and] 
> inviolable 
> > Krause, Wolfgang, Herbert Jankuhn.
> > 1966
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > What is clear from this list is that the reading and the 
> translation 
> > is rather uncertain. However, in contrast to Reichert's latest 
> study 
> > not all of these translations above will have been based on a 
close 
> > analysis of the original ring, so that some of them likely suffer 
> > from a misreading of the runes. 
> > 
> > cheers
> > Dirk 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor" 
> <fericzobor at y...> 
> > wrote:
> > > Hi, Dirk,
> > > 
> > > I write 'GUTANI WIHAILAG' because it is in Gothic and because 
> it's 
> > > from my country, Romania. In fact, the runes read GUTANI?
> WIHAILAG, 
> > > where ? is for the illegible rune at the place of the fracture 
of 
> > the 
> > > necklace. I know that there are still controversies regarding 
the 
> > > interpretation of this text, but I personally think that it is 
> not 
> > > very plausible the interpretation of GUTANI as 'gutane' 
= 'good'.
> > > First: indeed, in German 'gut' = 'good', but in Gothic 'good' 
is 
> > > goths/goda-, so the genitive plural, weak adjectival 
declension, 
> > > would be 'godane', not 'gutane'.
> > > Second: it doesn't make sense in this context to put the 
> > > adjective 'good' in genitive plural. But the substantive "Goth" 
> in 
> > > genitive plural - "of the Goths" is more meaningful.
> > > So I still prefer to consider that the most plausible 
> > interpretation 
> > > of GUTANI is 'gutane' = 'of the Goths'.
> > > 
> > > With best regards,
> > > Francisc
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <dirk at s...> wrote:
> > > > ... 
> > > > Hi Francisc,
> > > > 
> > > > I see that you write 'GUTANI WIHAILAG'. Did you know that the 
> > > latest 
> > > > investigation on the original ring suggests that the best 
> reading 
> > > of 
> > > > the inscription is 'gutane jer weih hailag', which is a 
> blessing 
> > > for 
> > > > a good year, with 'gutane' meaning 'good' . Hence, the name 
of 
> > the 
> > > > Goths is probably not on the ring.
> > > > 
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Dirk


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