[gothic-l] Re: Visigoths not "Booted Out"

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, OSCAR HERRERA <duke.co at s...> wrote:
> dirk,   the goths upended the romans desire to furthur their
domain. the gothic nation was in fact the only viable germanic
threat to roman ways back then.





Hi Oscar,

the Visigoths of the early 5th century were a Roman federate army!
They were brought in by the Romans to defeat the Suevi, Vandals and
the Bagaudae. The Visigoths did not come as conqueres to Gaul and
Spain, but as federate soldiers of the Roman Empire. They were
commanded by the Romans to attack the Vandals and Suevi in Spain, but
they were then withdrawn from Spain by the Romans and given
settlement territory in Gaul, where they formed a strong kingdom
under king Euric. However, this kingdom was destroyed by the Franks
in 507AD and the remaining Visigoth fled to Spain.










other smaller germanic groups like the cherusbic or named not known
where smaller in numbers at that time.




Now you really confuse a few things. The Cherusci existed almost 400
years before we first hear of any Visigoths. About their size we know
practically nothing, but we do know that they defeated and
annihilated a massive Roman army of 3 legions in 9AD near Osnabrueck
in Germany.










they too.proved to hard to dominate as the romans failed to get past
the rhine bac k then. anyhow your opinion is hardly attested ,




Well, in contrast to yourself I have given you the literature
reference. Estimates of the size of the Visigothic people are
provided by Herwig Wolfram among others, while the size of other
groups like the Alamanni were provided by Geuenich, Menghin and
others. If you have contradictory literature references I like to
hear about it.

Cheers
Dirk










bud.......oscargoth so handus
>
> faltin2001 <dirk at s...> wrote:
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, OSCAR HERRERA wrote:
> > all of this booting out of the goths sounds like they were a
> weakling nation.
>
>
>
> Hi Oscar,
>
> the Visigoths were not 'booted out' and Jim explained that he had
> chosen in accurate wording. The Visigoths as an ethnic identity
> simply seized to exist, just as the Ostrogoths of Italy simply
seized
> to exist as an ethnic group after their final defeat by the East
> Romans. Neither The Visigoths nor the Ostrogoths were 'Weakling
> Nations', in fact this term is also ill chosen I think. Both
> Visigoths and Ostrogoths were great warriors in their times, but
the
> Visigoths state in Spain did suffer from internal strife, economic
> crisis and social segregation which weakened the state (not the
> people as such).
>
>
>
>
>
>
> they were a migratatory nation and thus were the most populated
> germanic group at that time.
>
>
>
> This idea that the Visigoths were the most populous of all Germanic
> groups was errandously propagated by FTDEiV (or similar). The
> Visigoths were a heterogenous migratory group led by a Visigothic
> elite, and they may have numbered up to 200,000 people, but that
> meant that they were far smaller than groups like the Alamanni, who
> according to D. Geuenich (Die Alemannen) numbered around 1 to 2
> million. The Rhine Frankish population in 500 AD is estimated at a
> similar 1 million people.
>
>
>
>
>
> all their struggles were just to live and feed all their
people.their
> struggles are worth their legends.
>
>
>
> Which are their legends? I mean which Visigothic legend are you
> refering to?
>
> Cheers
> Dirk
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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