[gothic-l] Re: International

Wed Aug 18 14:38:58 UTC 2004

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <penterakt at f...> wrote:
> 
> Llama Nom, hails!

Thanks you for your oppinion and suggestions of wordchanging.
> 
> If I have understood your explanations right my sentence 'weig 
aftumist and-weiham' should mean like 'we are opposed to the last 
fight', that is 'we don't like the last fight', is that a correct 
assume?
> 
> 
> ANDWEIHAN appears just twice in the Gothic Bible, as far as I know, 
> which makes it hard to make any definite pronouncements about 
usage, 
> but both times it seems to mean 'to oppose [something/someone]' 
> or 'fight against' or just 'be opposed towards [a person]'.  (Once 
is 
> abstract: the idea of a law opposing a law; the other is Isaac 
being 
> opposed to, or taking a dislike to, Esau).  I'm not sure if you 
could 
> use it with "battle" as the direct object with the sense 'face the 
> last battle'.  I wonder if there are parallels in OE, ON or OHG?
> If I remember right, "fight the good fight" is: HAIFSTEI THO GODON 
> HAIFST (1Tm 6,12), so we could have: haifstjam tho aftumiston 
> haifst 'let us fight the last fight' - with a word order of your 
> choice.  Aftumisto weig weihan 'fight the final fight' should work.

To get it right with the right number of syllables in each row, of 
which the first contains 7 syllables, i think, i think the latter of 
your suggestions is better. But could be OK with this word 
order 'weig aftumisto weihan'? I also prefer to have the 
form 'weiham' instead of weihan. So my new proposition is 'Weig 
aftumisto weiham' (or alternative: 'aftumisto weig weiham').

> THAIRH GADETH.  I'm not quite sure what you had in mind here.  
> Literally "Through deed"?  "By our actions"??

Well, I had to find something that rhymes with mana-seth, and also 
fit into the row, with right number of syllables. My idea was to get 
something like: 'Unite by action'.

> LISAN is always used for 'gather' in the sense of 'collect, 
harvest, 
> gather in', rather than 'unite'.  But who knows, maybe it had 
> extended senses which just weren't recorded.  GALISAN can mean 
> either 'collect/harvest' or reflexively SIK GALISAN 'congregate, 
come 
> together, meet'.  The GA- probably helps give it a sense 
> of "together".  Other possibilities, with the more specific 
> meaning 'join': gawidan, gagatilon, (ga)gahaftjan.

In this case I meant to use it as 'gather'. I don't know if i'm right 
but the original says: 'Sera le gendre humain'. This 'sera' I think 
is imperative of serrer, which I think could be translated 
as 'gather'.
> 
But I've changed the word 'lisiþ' to 'gawidiþ'. A problem is that now 
there's one more syllable. But it sounds OK anyway i think.
> 
> 
I just wanna hear what you think about my using of the 
word 'internatsjonals' instead of make a new word as you did?
>
I think that emphasis in the song shouldn't be as it as it realy 
should be. In the second sentence i think it sounds better to have 
the emphasis on the last i in ga-qimith, rather than anywere else.
The pronunciation of ga-widith tho...sounds better as gawiditho, with 
a long th-sound. What do think about these things? 
> ____________________________________________
> 
> 
> For "worker's of the world unite", I'd go for a mixture of your two 
> suggestions, e.g.:
> Fairhwaus waurstwans gaqimith!
> Waurstwans fairhwaus gaqimith!
> ...gagaggith izwis!
> ...galisith izwis!

About this quotation I wonder if you know in what language Marx wrote 
the original? I guess it was either german or english, but i'm not 
sure. If it was english, the translation should start out 
from 'worker's of the world unite'. But if it was in german, maybe 
the formulation was in a different way...i don't know for sure.

In swedish (which is tha language which i speak) the quot is 
said: 'arbetare (or proletärer) i alla länder, förena er (or förenen 
eder)'. This means litteraly: workers (or proletarians) in all 
countries, unite!
Be cause of this I had the proposition: 'arbáidjarjos in allane 
lande, ga-qimith!'.
I don't think the word 'arbáidjarjos' is recorded, but what about the 
usage of it?
>
> 
> ___________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, here's my go at a Gothic "The Internationale".  I 
consulted 
> as many of the various language versions here as I could 
understand: 
> http://angelfire.com/pq/svechka
> 
> Usstandith allans huhraus bandjans!
> Usstandith uswaurpos thiude!
> So unraihteins skal suns gaandjan:
> atist auk airtha batizei.
> 
> Afwaurpanos sind bandjos fairnjos,
> gasatiths aftra hlains jah dal.
> Gasniwam weis us faur bi stairnons.
> Ni waiht, weis habam wairthan all.
> 
> Tho nunu spediston  haifst haifstjam,
> naht andstandandans.
> Thata Gathiudaliuth, gahlaibans,
> gawidith alamans.
> 
Well done. I tried to sing your version and found it very easy to 
sing, so i think you've done a good job to fit in the right numbers 
of syllables in all rows. Even though the litteraly meaning of it is 
quite different from the swedish version I think that the version as 
a whole has the same meaning.
These sentences 'gasniwam weis us faur bi stairnons' and 'naht 
andstandandans' are nothing I have seen before. Is it your own 
creation or does some version have those sentences?

Gawairthi
/Fredrik

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