[gothic-l] Re: Map of the Germanic (Gothic?) place-names in Poland

[llama_nom]

Hi Reikhardus,

Two of the names on this map are said to come from a Germanic
*trulling-.  I wonder if there is any connection with the
nickname "trouli" which Olympiodorus claims was what the Vandals
called the Goths after 416.  According to Olympiodorus (summarised by
Photius), this was was derogatory term deriving from the Latin
word "trula", a measure of grain.  In 416 the Visigoths were
blockaded in Taragonne, and were forced to the pay exorbitant price
of one aureus to the Vandals for a trula of wheat.  But maybe this
was a folk-etymology, or a scholarly explanation of a name that
already existed?

Of the *trulling- place names, one appears in the Wielbark area,
associated with the Goths, and the other in the Przeworsk area,
perhaps representing the Vandals or their precursors - though the
boundary between the two changed over time, so I'm not sure whether
too much can be read into that.

I seem to remember reading a discussion on this list a long time ago
about the Scandinavian word 'troll', and its possible relation to
Polish place names (I'm afraid I can't find it now), but I don't
thing this can be the case here, as the vowel is different (troll
would come from an earlier *trallu).

As for the other names: *greudung- looks very similar to *Griutingos,
a famous Gothic tribe, appearing in Latin as the Greutingi, and in
Old Norse as Grytinga (genitive plural, long /y/).

*widung- might contain the same root as Wulfila's ga-widan "to join
together"; could *wilthj- be related to Gothic wiltheis "wild"?
*baki- makes sense as a cognate of the English 'beck', German 'Bach' -
suggesting a Gothic i-stem *baks.

Does anyone have any idea about the others?  One that puzzled me was
Goplo (with the Polish line through the /l/), which is matched to a
Germanic *gathel (the /th/ here being a thorn symbol on the map).  Is
this a mistake?

I share Vladimir's doubts about Pelta/*fultho.  Regarding the two
different forms supposedly derived from *struko: Maybe these reflect
different Slavonic (or Baltic?) dialects.  If this derivation is
genuine, the first syllable could have been lost due to being
unstressed (cf. Czech sklo, as opposed to Russian stiklo, Old
Prussian stiklo, Gothic stikls).  But I don't know enough about
Polish etymology to make an informed judgement on this.

That said, the map is very intriguing and I look forward to seeing
the Silesian names.  Do either of the books offer meanings for these
place names?

Llama Nom


--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "galadhorn" <galadhorn at i...> wrote:
> Here (http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/graphics/germania_low.jpg) I
have
> published a map made by me (using the maps: "Germanic place-names"
> from Z. Babik's "The Oldest Place-name Stratum in Today's Poland"
> (Cracow 2001) and "Archeological cultures in today's Poland in the
> Late Roman period - 3-4 C." from Kaczanowski, Kozlowski's "The
> Oldest History of the Land of Today's Poland") which shows the
> Germanic place-names in the teritory which in the antiquity was
> populated by the Goths and Gepids (Wielbark Culture).
>
> I would like to hear your opinion about this map. I have tried to
> reconstruct the Germanic forms of the names (according to Babik's
> book and to the newest Polish research). Babik ennumerates 23 Pre-
> Slavic Germanic place-names in Poland. I will add the Silesian
names
> soon.
>
> Reikhardus



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