[gothic-l] Re: Bastarnae

[hrafnsnest]

Hi Dirk, Vladimir, and Tore,

Thank you for your respective replys.  I've been curious as to what
forms of writing the pre-CE Germanic tribes such as the Bastarnae
would have been exposed to.  The two cultures that come to mind are
the Scythian and Ionian Greek.  All of this in relation to the origin
of the runes and other mythological concepts that were later
developed by the Norse culture.  Myself, I've opted for the N. Italic
theory of Otto Hofler (Negau Helment B) via the possible (H)erul
genesis.  However, I've seen such theories as a Gothic via Greek
origin, and even the highly questionable Gok-turk theory purported by
a certain Professor out of Hungary (he even calls the Gok-turk
script "runes").

I guess what I'm trying to do is eliminate any possible "Eastern"
origin of the runes in my mind.

Skal,
Valulfr



--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <dirk at s...> wrote:
>
> Hi Valulfr and Vladimir,
>
> according to the RGA there are two reasons for regarding the
> Bastarnae as Germanic. Firstly, ancient authors such as Tacitus
said
> that they spoke a Germanic language, but secondly and perhaps more
> importantly, the Poienesti-Lukashevka archaeological culture shows
> similarities with the Germanic Jastorf culture that some authors
have
> describes as 'astonishing'. In fact, there is apprently now good
> evidence to suggest that the Poienesti-Lukashevka culture migrated
> from the area of the Lower Lausitz and Spree-region in what is now
> Germany. In fact, this migration of carriers of the Jastorf culture
> to the Black Sea is also regarded as an important factor in the
> creation of the Przeworsk culture. The only problem that arises is:
> can we be sure that the Poienesti-Lukashevka culture included the
> Bastarnae? Here the argument gets a bit circular. Hence, Tacitus
said
> they were Germanic, an archaeological culture originating from a
> Germanic culture (Jastorf) was located therefore the Bastarnae must
> be that culture. I have the RGA article somewhere and look up the
> details.
>
> Cheers
> Dirk

> > Hi, Valulfr!
> >
> >
> >
> > A favorite sentence of the famous
> > Russian archaeologist Mark Shchukin
> > (a widely respected expert in the Celtic
> > history and a leading specialist
> > in exploration of Zarubinetskaya
> > and Poyaneshty-Lukashevka archaeological
> > cultures, from St. Petersburg) is
> > "the Bastarnae were Bastarnae".
> > He considers the Bastarnae as belonging
> > to "peoples between the Celts and Germans"
> > i.e. a third central European nation,
> > neither exactly Germanic nor Celtic.
> > Having migrated from central Europe
> > to downer Danube in some 3rd century B.C.,
> > they introduced characteristic La-Tene features
> > into two archaeological cultures:
> > Zarubinetskaya (middle Dnepr) and
> > Poyaneshty-Lukashevka (Moldova).
> > Now these cultures are reliably attributed
> > to the Bastarnae, conjecturally to the Strabo's
> > Atmones and Sidones, respectively. (The third
> > Strabo's grouping of the Bastarnae, the Peukines,
> > relates probably to Sata Nou, Romania). Moreover,
> > Shchukin supposes the Bastarnae as having been
> > an important component of the Slavonic genesis,
> > but this point of view is not commonly accepted.
> >
> >
> >
> > There are plenty publications in Russian, but
> > I can't give references in English, unfortunately.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Vladimir
]



You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>.
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
     gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/