[gothic-l] Re: Spanish surnames

[cheyenne nicole]

faltin2001 <dirk at smra.co.uk> wrote:> hey  everyone....I won't be on the computer for a while. so if i don't respond to anything you guys send me its not because i'm rude. Bye Have fun! 
> F.E.J.D. writes:
> Presently Leonardo, genetic haplotyping has minimized the inaccuracy
> of population studies, which relied solely on historical data,
> craniometry and typology and other circuitous and highly
> interpretational methods. No longer do we have to accept unreliable
> and/or sometimes "ulterior" subjective opinions on such things as 
the
> genetic contribution of people groups such as Visigoths (the largest
> of ALL Germanic tribes) 




There is so much wrong with this text that I point out only a few 
things. The Visigoths were certainly not the largest of all Germanic 
tribes. Franks, Saxons, Alamannians, Anglo-Saxons, Bavarians and the 
North Germanic peoples were all much larger than the Visigoths. 












to the Spanish population. Simply by
> understanding, contrasting and comparing the relevant haplogroups 
and
> haplotypes within a given population one is able to tell if there 
has
> been any extraneous admixture. It is interesting however that before
> there was haplotyping it had been thought (quite correctly) by many
> scholars, (including Bury), that the Visigoths numbered 
approximately
> 300,000 in a peninsula of (at the time) 






This is likely far to high a number. More like 100,000 perhaps more 
and many of them were, according to the historical sources, hangers 
on. Runaway Roman peasants, slaves, Roman mine workers and so on, who 
joined the Visigoths on their way to Spain. 







[3,500,000 inhabitants
> (Kenneth W. Harl, Tulane U. 1998)]. Likewise, (Stanley Payne, 1973)
> concluded that the same number existed after the time of Alaric II
> (484-507); a ratio of (11.66) to (1). The later ratio is in fact 
close
> to the present ratio of African-Americans to European Americans in 
the
> U.S, a sizable element in the overall population. Even so, it is
> further thought that despite pressures from disease etc; the
> Visigothic law of "thirds", (where 2/3 of each Hispano-Roman villa 
was
> confiscated by Visigoths), would have given the Visigoths a greater
> advantage in increasing their numbers, that, since the ability to
> raise comestibles by having more land and better soils would have
> favored Visigoth families over those who had poor soil and less land
> and could not raise as much food. Furthermore, by projecting the
> previous trend to 711CE (a period of some 200 years) it is quite
> conceivable that the Visigoths could have narrowed the previously
> stated ratio to as little as 10 to 1. You must also notice that I 
have
> not factored-in other people Germanic people already in the 
peninsula,
> they are simply not included as part of the Visigothic population,
> namely the Suebi, which probably numbered around 80,000, and the
> remnant Vandals that remained in Spain or returned to the Balearic
> Islands and elsewhere after their ruinous mission to the south,
> however these were probably few. – Nonetheless, underpinning the 
best
> estimate of Visigoth admixture in Spain is the presence of suspect
> genetic signatures in the Y-chromosome and/or mtDNA of extant
> individuals where an inference may be made. The latter is in the
> process of being collected from the extant populations of (Spain,
> Pomerania, Gotland, and Southern Sweden as well as other suspected
> homelands.






One cannot, but smile and shake ones head at such nonsense.
I am sure you will succeed in calculating the Spanish into a Germanic 
people, strange only that most of them just don't look the part;-)

Dirk





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Cheyenne
		
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