[gothic-l] Re: du usfilhan ana gastim

[llama_nom]

Hi Lucia,

No problem!  That's very helpful.  This is different from Gerry's 
idea that ANA is adverbial.  I wonder...  Does Durante have any 
parallels for this use of ANA?  Does Durante express any opinion as 
to any possible extra meaning of ANA here?  e.g. "for [the use of] 
strangers"? "[to be performed] by strangers"? etc.  Or is the 
argument that ANA has no function other than to indicate that the 
high priests are not the ones doing the burying.

1Tim 4,3: gatharban mate, thanzei guth gaskop du andniman "to 
abstain from foods which God made to be received".

du andniman = eis metalhmyin (lit. "for receiving")

Seems like a good comparison.  As in Mt 27,7, Gothic translates a 
Greek noun with du + infinitive verb.

But this construction can also translate a Greek passive, e.g. L 
3,12 qemun motarjos du daupjan "tax-collectors came to be baptised" 
(baptisqhnai).

So DU USFILHAN looks like it could theoretically be active or 
passive.  To be on the safe side we could always say "for burials".  
To sum up the possibilities:

1) "for burials on, by foreigners", cf. Mt 6,1 (Gerry)
2) "for burials among the foreign comminity", cf. Calendar: ana 
Gutthiudai
3) "for burials, ??? foreigners" (Durante)

That's my guess, number 2.  Mt. 6,1 just has: du atsaihvan im "to be 
seen by them" with no preposition.  Elsewhere agency is normally 
expressed by FRAM, occasionally THAIRH.  I don't know anywhere where 
agency is expressed by ANA.

Llama Nom




--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Sinisi" <luciasinisi at y...> 
wrote:
> 
> Hi, Llama!
> Sorry for my late reply! 
> Durante considers DU USFILHAN as active and ANA refers to GASTIM,  
with a prepositional funtion. According to him Wulfila doesn't use 
the accusative, which is the normal case for the verb usfilhan, 
because it would imply that the action is directly done by the 
sacerdos. He also compares Mt. 27,7 with T 4,3, which shows  a 
similar construction. 
> 
> Lucia
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: llama_nom 
>   To: gothic-l at yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 12:34 AM
>   Subject: [gothic-l] Re: du usfilhan ana gastim
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Hi Lucia,
> 
>   Interesting.  Have you read this article or do you know what 
>   Durante's opinion was about the phrase?  E.g. whether DU 
USFILHAN is 
>   passive, and whether ANA refers to the field or to GASTIM?
> 
>   Llama Nom
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Lucia Sinisi" 
<luciasinisi at y...> 
>   wrote:
>   > 
>   > there is an article dedicated to the construction of this 
phrase  
>   by E. Durante, unfortunately in italian: 
>   > E. Durante, "'Du usfilhan ana gastim'. La funzione di 'ana' e 
il 
>   costrutto 'du' con l'infinito in gotico, Biblioteca di Ricerche 
>   Linguistiche e Filologiche, Roma: Il Calamo, 1974, 40 pp.
>   > 
>   > Lucia S.
>   > 
>   >   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   >   From: Grsartor at a... 
>   >   To: gothic-l at yahoogroups.com 
>   >   Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 8:03 AM
>   >   Subject: Re: [gothic-l] Salo Test -- further thoughts & was 
>   Wulfila one person??
>   > 
>   > 
>   >   About the Gothic phrase
>   > 
>   >       du usfilhan ana gastim
>   > 
>   >   which translates the Greek
>   > 
>   >       eis taphén tois xenois:
>   > 
>   >   How is the Gothic to be construed? The Greek seems to 
be "into 
>   (i.e. for the 
>   >   purpose of) burial for strangers", though my Greek is too 
ropy 
>   for me to 
>   >   pronounce confidently on this. The Revised Standard Version 
of 
>   Matthew has "to bury 
>   >   strangers in". To make the Gothic match the Greek, the 
>   infinitive could be 
>   >   taken as passive, since Gothic sometimes uses the active 
>   infinitive in this way; 
>   >   e.g. Matthew 6:1 "du saihwan im" = to be seen by them. If  
in 
>   addition the 
>   >   use of "ana" here is taken to be adverbial, the sense 
is "for 
>   strangers to be 
>   >   buried on". 
>   > 
>   >   As for the list of dative verbs that llama_nom provided 
>   recently, "gahwotjan" 
>   >   (= rebuke, threaten) could be added.
>   > 
>   >   Gerry T.







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