[gothic-l] Re: Want som comments and corrections

Sat Nov 13 11:46:42 UTC 2004

Hi Fredrik,

Well done!  Here's a few random thoughts to be going on with.  
According to Koebler, Gk. kurios always = Go. frauja.  The word 
_guth_ appears as if neuter, with no masc. nominative -s, even when 
used as the proper name for the Christian God (usually abbreviated 
to gth), but you are right in using masculine adjectives/pronouns 
with it, when it does mean the Christian God (and perhaps also if 
used for a particular named pagan god?)

taihun gagreftais: did you mean _taihun gagrefteis_?

2) "out of the house of bondage", more literally: us razna 
thiwadwis.  (If we follow the Greek word order and construction.)  
But your compound makes sense too.

3) guthans: probably guda, neut.pl., as in other Gmc. languages, cf. 
neut.nom.pl. galiugaguda 1Kr 10,19 A.  The forms gth, gtha, gths 
that appear in the manuscripts should probably be expanded to guth, 
guda, gudis (according to Braune & Helm), cf. derivatives 
gudafaurhts, gudaskaunei, etc.

3) ufar mik: could be, although I think usually alja = plhn in this 
sense.  Ufar 'except' occurs Sk 7,4: ni wisandin aljai waihtai ufar 
þans fimf hlaibans "not having anything except those 5 loaves", but 
maybe the sense there is 'beyond, more than' (cf. Sk 6,3 alla ufar 
insaht manniskodaus Iohannes)  I reckon ALJA is probably the safest 
translation here.

5) fidworta: *fidurda, or *fidworda?

5) in thridja jah fidworta laithaim: maybe "du thridjom jah fidurdom 
aldim" or "in/ana thridjons jah fidurdons aldins" (or dat. with 
in/ana) = Gk. geneas 'generations'.  Re. *laithaim, were you 
thinking of Swedish led (släktled)?  This actually goes back to OSw. 
lither = Go. lithus ( 
http://www.lysator.liu.se/runeberg/svetym/0489.html ).

5 & 6) frijond mis, fijand mis: frijond mik, fijand mik.

8) gamunei: gamun (preterite present verb, rather than Weak Class 
1). Good use of genitive here, though.

10) ni waurstwa taujan: usually _ni_ comes directly before the verb, 
even where this is different for the Gk. word order.

11) Duthe ist sabbato dagis: dags (nom.)

12) fadar jah mothar: *modar, but the word never occurs in Go.  
Instead _aithei_ is used.  Fadar only accurs at Gal 6,4 in an 
exclamation; everywhere else, it's _atta_.

16) galiuga weitwodjan: galiug weitwodjan

16) ana nehvundjan theinana: good! This is an example of what Sigi 
mentioned in our recent discussion of this preposition, namely 
casting something unpleasant at someone -- in this case, 
metaphorically, a false accusation.

Good work, anyway.  Lots of subtle things you got right, like dat. 
with skalkinon.  I haven't looked carefully at the whole of your 
translation, nor checked it all against the Septuagint, but it looks 
generally quite convincing, and makes sense as Gothic!

Llama Nom

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts at h...> wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> > 
> > I've tried to translate some of the bible into
> > gothic. I first thought 
> > I should translate the ten commandments of God, but
> > I found out that these 
> > ten isn't the same in all languages and all
> > churches. Acctualy I found 
> > totaly thirteen commandments. But anyway, I changed
> > my mind and began to 
> > translate the part of the bible where the
> > commandments are mentioned, exodus 
> > 20:1-20:17. I'd like you to comment it and make corrections. 
There 
> are words and grammar that I have been more or less insecure (<- 
> spelling?) about. Well, here it is:
> > 
> > Ur-runs (2:ra Mosaíboka) kap. 20
> > 
> > Taihun ga-greftais Gudis
> > 
> > 1. Jah rodida Guths tho allona waurda jah qath:
> > 2. Ik im Frauja, Guths theins, saei thuk ustauh fram
> > landa Aigwptis, us 
> > thiwadwarazna.
> > 3. Ni skalt thu alja guthans haban ufar mik.
> > 4. Ni skalt thu thus man-leikans aiththau
> > taikneinins taujan, ni af thamma 
> > in himina jah af thamma ana airthai aiththau af
> > thamma in watin uf airthai.
> > 5. Ni skalt thu blotan jah skalkinon thaim. Unte Ik,
> > Frauja, Guths theins, 
> > ist us-dauths Guths, saei ga-weisoth missa-dethais
> > fadre ana barnam jah 
> > afaram in thridja jah fidworta laithaim, thizeei
> > fijand mis,
> > 6. ith armaith thusundjos laithans, thizeei frijond
> > mis jah ga-greftins 
> > meinos haldand.
> > 7. Ni skalt thu missa-brukjan namo Fraujins, Gudis
> > theinis, unte Frauja skal 
> > ni letan ina unwliziths wairthan, saei
> > missa-brukeith namo is.
> > 8. Ga-munei sabbato dagis thatei weihaith ina.
> > 9. Saihs dagos skalt thu arbaidjan jah waurstwa
> > theina taujan.
> > 10. Ith sibunda dags ist sabbato Fraujins, Gudis
> > theinis. Than skalt thu ni 
> > waurstwa taujan, ni jah sunus theins aiththau
> > dauhtar theina, ni jah skalks 
> > theins aiththau thiwairna theina aiththau faihu
> > thein, ni jah alja-kunja 
> > saei in daurom theinaim ist.
> > 11. Unte in saihs dagam ga-skop Frauja himin jah
> > airtha jah saiw jah all 
> > thanei in thaim sind, ith hweilaida sibunda daga.
> > Duthe ist sabbato dagis 
> > ga-thiuthiths jah weihaiths af Fraujin.
> > 12. Swerai fadar jah mothar theinai, ei thu skalt
> > liban laggaba in landa 
> > thammei Frauja, Guths theins, thus gibith.
> > 13. Ni skalt thu maúrthrjan.
> > 14. Ni skalt thu horinon.
> > 15. Ni skalt thu stilan.
> > 16. Ni skalt thu ga-liuga weitwodjan ana nehwundjan
> > theinana.
> > 17. Ni skalt thu lustus haban bi razn nehwundjins
> > theinis. Ni skalt thu 
> > lustus haban bi qen nehwundjins theinis, jah ni bi
> > skalk is aiththau 
> > thiwairna is, ni bi auhsan is aiththau asilu is, ni
> > jah bi sumana thanei ist 
> > nehwundjins theinis.
> > 
> > Alternative for Exodus 20:5
> > 
> > 5. Ni skalt thu blotan jah hneiwan faura thaim. Unte
> > Ik, Frauja, Guths 
> > theins, ist aiwiskonds Guths, jah ana-lagjith
> > fairina ana barnam jah iuthom 
> > in thridja jah fidworta laithaim, bi inwindithom
> > attane hatandaize mis.
> > 
> > /Fredrik

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