[gothic-l] Re: Want som comments and corrections

Mon Nov 15 11:52:03 UTC 2004

Hi!

When I made this translation I didn't use the greek to translate 
from. Instead I used, mostly, the swedish, and also a little the 
english and an older version of the english. Why I did that is 
because I can't understand a single word in greek, almost.
So if it's different from the greek version in case of the use of 
other words for 'kurios' it's because the swedish or english version 
used another.
If some one know the greek, I won't mind if you tell me how it is and 
explain in to me.

The word gagrefts. Isn't that fem. i-stem? And maybe I lack in my 
knowledge there, but I thought it was -ais in plurar. Got to check 
this soon, when I'll be back home :)

house of bondage: is this the way the wordorder is in greek to? And 
is this the way to say it in gothic? When I earlier asked about 
compound words I thought about the english way to use genitive just 
as this sample. And I thought it would be more common to use a 
compound form in gothic, so instead of house of bondage it would be 
like a bondagehouse.

About 'laitham'. This was a word I just used temporary because I 
didn't know the real word. And yes, I was thinking of swedish led, 
whidch is the word used in the swedish bible.

Thank you for your comments and corrections. I will now try to make a 
new better version of this biblepart.

Just some question more about this: which version of 20:5 was the 
better translation? Also which is less diferent from the greek?

/Fredrik

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell at o...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Fredrik,
> 
> Well done!  Here's a few random thoughts to be going on with.  
> According to Koebler, Gk. kurios always = Go. frauja.  The word 
> _guth_ appears as if neuter, with no masc. nominative -s, even when 
> used as the proper name for the Christian God (usually abbreviated 
> to gth), but you are right in using masculine adjectives/pronouns 
> with it, when it does mean the Christian God (and perhaps also if 
> used for a particular named pagan god?)
> 
> taihun gagreftais: did you mean _taihun gagrefteis_?
> 
> 2) "out of the house of bondage", more literally: us razna 
> thiwadwis.  (If we follow the Greek word order and construction.)  
> But your compound makes sense too.
> 
> 3) guthans: probably guda, neut.pl., as in other Gmc. languages, 
cf. 
> neut.nom.pl. galiugaguda 1Kr 10,19 A.  The forms gth, gtha, gths 
> that appear in the manuscripts should probably be expanded to guth, 
> guda, gudis (according to Braune & Helm), cf. derivatives 
> gudafaurhts, gudaskaunei, etc.
> 
> 3) ufar mik: could be, although I think usually alja = plhn in this 
> sense.  Ufar 'except' occurs Sk 7,4: ni wisandin aljai waihtai ufar 
> þans fimf hlaibans "not having anything except those 5 loaves", but 
> maybe the sense there is 'beyond, more than' (cf. Sk 6,3 alla ufar 
> insaht manniskodaus Iohannes)  I reckon ALJA is probably the safest 
> translation here.
> 
> 5) fidworta: *fidurda, or *fidworda?
> 
> 5) in thridja jah fidworta laithaim: maybe "du thridjom jah 
fidurdom 
> aldim" or "in/ana thridjons jah fidurdons aldins" (or dat. with 
> in/ana) = Gk. geneas 'generations'.  Re. *laithaim, were you 
> thinking of Swedish led (släktled)?  This actually goes back to 
OSw. 
> lither = Go. lithus ( 
> http://www.lysator.liu.se/runeberg/svetym/0489.html ).
> 
> 5 & 6) frijond mis, fijand mis: frijond mik, fijand mik.
> 
> 8) gamunei: gamun (preterite present verb, rather than Weak Class 
> 1). Good use of genitive here, though.
> 
> 10) ni waurstwa taujan: usually _ni_ comes directly before the 
verb, 
> even where this is different for the Gk. word order.
> 
> 11) Duthe ist sabbato dagis: dags (nom.)
> 
> 12) fadar jah mothar: *modar, but the word never occurs in Go.  
> Instead _aithei_ is used.  Fadar only accurs at Gal 6,4 in an 
> exclamation; everywhere else, it's _atta_.
> 
> 16) galiuga weitwodjan: galiug weitwodjan
> 
> 16) ana nehvundjan theinana: good! This is an example of what Sigi 
> mentioned in our recent discussion of this preposition, namely 
> casting something unpleasant at someone -- in this case, 
> metaphorically, a false accusation.
> 
> 
> Good work, anyway.  Lots of subtle things you got right, like dat. 
> with skalkinon.  I haven't looked carefully at the whole of your 
> translation, nor checked it all against the Septuagint, but it 
looks 
> generally quite convincing, and makes sense as Gothic!
> 
> Llama Nom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts at h...> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi!
> > > 
> > > I've tried to translate some of the bible into
> > > gothic. I first thought 
> > > I should translate the ten commandments of God, but
> > > I found out that these 
> > > ten isn't the same in all languages and all
> > > churches. Acctualy I found 
> > > totaly thirteen commandments. But anyway, I changed
> > > my mind and began to 
> > > translate the part of the bible where the
> > > commandments are mentioned, exodus 
> > > 20:1-20:17. I'd like you to comment it and make corrections. 
> There 
> > are words and grammar that I have been more or less insecure (<- 
> > spelling?) about. Well, here it is:
> > > 
> > > Ur-runs (2:ra Mosaíboka) kap. 20
> > > 
> > > Taihun ga-greftais Gudis
> > > 
> > > 1. Jah rodida Guths tho allona waurda jah qath:
> > > 2. Ik im Frauja, Guths theins, saei thuk ustauh fram
> > > landa Aigwptis, us 
> > > thiwadwarazna.
> > > 3. Ni skalt thu alja guthans haban ufar mik.
> > > 4. Ni skalt thu thus man-leikans aiththau
> > > taikneinins taujan, ni af thamma 
> > > in himina jah af thamma ana airthai aiththau af
> > > thamma in watin uf airthai.
> > > 5. Ni skalt thu blotan jah skalkinon thaim. Unte Ik,
> > > Frauja, Guths theins, 
> > > ist us-dauths Guths, saei ga-weisoth missa-dethais
> > > fadre ana barnam jah 
> > > afaram in thridja jah fidworta laithaim, thizeei
> > > fijand mis,
> > > 6. ith armaith thusundjos laithans, thizeei frijond
> > > mis jah ga-greftins 
> > > meinos haldand.
> > > 7. Ni skalt thu missa-brukjan namo Fraujins, Gudis
> > > theinis, unte Frauja skal 
> > > ni letan ina unwliziths wairthan, saei
> > > missa-brukeith namo is.
> > > 8. Ga-munei sabbato dagis thatei weihaith ina.
> > > 9. Saihs dagos skalt thu arbaidjan jah waurstwa
> > > theina taujan.
> > > 10. Ith sibunda dags ist sabbato Fraujins, Gudis
> > > theinis. Than skalt thu ni 
> > > waurstwa taujan, ni jah sunus theins aiththau
> > > dauhtar theina, ni jah skalks 
> > > theins aiththau thiwairna theina aiththau faihu
> > > thein, ni jah alja-kunja 
> > > saei in daurom theinaim ist.
> > > 11. Unte in saihs dagam ga-skop Frauja himin jah
> > > airtha jah saiw jah all 
> > > thanei in thaim sind, ith hweilaida sibunda daga.
> > > Duthe ist sabbato dagis 
> > > ga-thiuthiths jah weihaiths af Fraujin.
> > > 12. Swerai fadar jah mothar theinai, ei thu skalt
> > > liban laggaba in landa 
> > > thammei Frauja, Guths theins, thus gibith.
> > > 13. Ni skalt thu maúrthrjan.
> > > 14. Ni skalt thu horinon.
> > > 15. Ni skalt thu stilan.
> > > 16. Ni skalt thu ga-liuga weitwodjan ana nehwundjan
> > > theinana.
> > > 17. Ni skalt thu lustus haban bi razn nehwundjins
> > > theinis. Ni skalt thu 
> > > lustus haban bi qen nehwundjins theinis, jah ni bi
> > > skalk is aiththau 
> > > thiwairna is, ni bi auhsan is aiththau asilu is, ni
> > > jah bi sumana thanei ist 
> > > nehwundjins theinis.
> > > 
> > > Alternative for Exodus 20:5
> > > 
> > > 5. Ni skalt thu blotan jah hneiwan faura thaim. Unte
> > > Ik, Frauja, Guths 
> > > theins, ist aiwiskonds Guths, jah ana-lagjith
> > > fairina ana barnam jah iuthom 
> > > in thridja jah fidworta laithaim, bi inwindithom
> > > attane hatandaize mis.
> > > 
> > > /Fredrik

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