[gothic-l] Re: a Gothic poem (comparatives, adverbs, ai)

Mon May 23 15:50:00 UTC 2005

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "rausch_roman" <aranwe at m...> wrote:
> >hráinisto
> 
> So it's -(i)st with regular adjective declension?

Yes, superlatives can be declined as weak or strong adjectives, 
although there are no examples of the neuter ending -ata.  But 
comparatives are only weak.  Feminine comparatives have the ending -
ei, like present participles.  Joseph Wright "Grammar of the Gothic 
Language", p. 112- (section 243-); Wilhelm Braune "Gotische 
Grammatik" p. 71- (section 135-); Wilhelm Streitberg "Gotisches 
Elamentarbuch" p. 130- (section 188-).

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~kurisuto/germanic/aa_texts.html
http://www.wulfila.be/lib/streitberg/1920/#REF-toc

Did David Salo's lessons cover the different classes of adjective?  
As with nouns, adjectives can be divided into several types 
depending on what "stem vowel" (thematic vowel) they had in Proto 
Germanic.  Sometimes this has been lost in Gothic, 
so 'hrains' "pure", < Gmc. xrainiz, looks the same in the 
masc.nom.sg. as 'laggs' "long", < Gmc. langaz.  But for historical 
reasons they take somewhat different inflections.  These are listed 
in all the grammars mentioned above.  With other classes, the stem 
vowel survives in Gothic in the dictionary form, 
thus: 'hardus' "hard" < Gmc. xarðuz (but is lost in some of the 
other inflections).

All types of adjective EXCEPT a-stems (the largest class) have -iz- 
in the comparative, and -ist- in the superlative.

Some a-stems have -iz-, -ist- too.  But others take the ending -oz-
, -ost- for comparatives and superlatives respectively.  Streitberg 
mentions a tendency for the -oz- to be used only where the first 
syllable of the adjective (not including prefixes) is long; -iz- 
where the first syllable is short.  The only exception 
is 'hlasoza' "happier", and with the 
superlative 'lasiwostai' "weaker".  But -iz-, -ist- is found both 
with a-stem adjectives with a long first syllable or a short one.  
According to Braune there aren't enough examples of -ost- (only two) 
to discern any rule.

There are a few adjectives which form there comparative/superlative 
with a different root: mikils, maiza, maists "great, greater, 
greatest", but the declension is regular.

> 
> >swa lagga swe ik im þiudo apaustaulus
> >Here 'lagga' is actually an adjectival form
> 
> Obviosly feminine singular.. Oh, right, German uses the same here: 
> 'lange', 'so lange wie' (as long as).
> Has Gothic any distinct adverb formations (just out of curiosity)?

That's right, feminine singular (accusative, same form as 
nominative).  If you search at the Wulfila Project for _nauh leitil_ 
you'll see that "a little while yet" appears as neuter or feminine: 
nauh leitila hveila; nauh leitil mel.  Which I think are 
synonymous.  At J 14,19 'nauh leitil' "for a little [while]" appears 
on its own with 'mel' assumed.

http://www.wulfila.be/Corpus/Search.html

Gothic does indeed have distinct adverb endings.  Wright p. 166- 
(section 344-); Braune "Gotische Grammatik" p.105- (section 210-); 
Streitberg p. 133 (section 191-).  The ending -ba is added to the 
stem vowel, with occasional irregularities (a-stem mikilaba; i-stem 
ga-temiba; ja-stem sunjaba; u-stem harduba, but also hardaba).  The 
ending -o is added directly to the root.  Sometimes Gothic uses an 
adjective where English or German would use an adverb, so 'ibuks 
galeiþan' "to go back", where 'ibuks' is declined as an a-stem 
adjective agreeing with the subject: managai galiþun siponje is 
ibukai "many of his disciples went back".

As you'll see from the grammars there are various other adverbs not 
formed in these ways (e.g. 'ufta').  Some are formed from oblique 
cases of nouns.  There are special endings for spacial adverbs 
indicating simple POSITION, or movement FROM or TO.

> >The spelling 'hveila' here is the one used by the Wulfila Project.
> >Although it doesn't reflect the sound as well as 'hw', it's useful
> >because it preserves a distinction in the original Gothic alphabet
> >and avoids certain potential confusions
> 
> I see... (Though there should be no problem initially)

True.  The confusion comes where <h> is followed by <w> in 
compounds, 'þairhwakan' "stay awake [through the night]", 
versus 'sahvazuh saei' "whoever".  But they use <hv> in all 
positions for consistency.

> 
> >The form 'libaiþ' is because 'liban' is a Class 3 weak verb. Did
> >he lessons cover weak verb conjugations? There are four 
altogether.
> 
> No, at least it's not in the presented 9 lessons. But there are 
> however helpful conjugation charts. And there it reads -áiþ. Am
> I 
> right in supposing that the pronounciation of _ai_ and _au_ is
> deduced 
> only from analogies in related languages?
> The diphtong is breaking up the rhyme scheme a bit...

Ah, if only I knew...  There are differing views on this.  Evidence 
comes not only from other Gmc. languages, but from Latin and Greek 
spellings of Gothic names, also theoretically from Gothic loanwords 
that have survived in other languages: Romance, Slavonic, Baltic, 
even High German.  (I'm sure there must be more information to be 
derived from this than I know about.)  Also internal evidence in 
Gothic, such as parallels and how words behave when inflected, and 
which sounds were liable to be confused by later Gothic scribes.

The Vienna-Salzburg Codex (10th century), actually tells us that the 
<ai> in Gothic 'libaida' "lived" was pronounced like a Latin long 
<e>.  A Gothic or Vandalic prayer quoted in various garbled forms 
suggests that the stem vowel in another Class 3 weak verb 'arman' 
MIGHT also have been a monophthong.  But the scribal garbling makes 
that far from certain.  Another Latin source from North Africa gives 
the greeting/toast <eils> = Got. "hails", inplying a diphthong in 
this stressed position.

A runic inscription from Romania (5th), the Pietrassa ring, has the  
form HAILAG, and Latin spellings of Gothic names also suggest a 
diphthong in stressed syllables (see Braune).

A Burgundian runic inscription (6th century), the Charnay fibula: U
[N]ÞF[I]NTHAI, probably 3rd person singular subjunctive present.  
However, runic spelling is just as likely to retain archaic 
spellings as the Roman of Gothic alphabets, and may even have been 
influenced at some stage by the Wulfilan tradition.  Due to 
monophthongisation in NW Gmc., early Scandinavian inscriptions used 
AI for open [E:] in unstressed positions.

For the moment, until I know better, I'm following the pronunciation 
scheme in the early sections of Wright's grammar with one 
difference, namely I use a long open [E:] (as in my British 
pronunciation of English <fair>) for <ai> in the inflections of Weak 
Class 3 verbs.  Like long open <ä> in those pronunciations of German 
that distinguish it from long (close) <e>.

> 
> Hvas ist þata hráinisto ana aírþai?
> Snáiws saei lagga ni libáiþ,
> Þanei himins uns ufta fragibiþ
> Swê huzd miþ kaldamma haírtin?

Looks good to me.  I like the ambiguity of the last line.  It's 
obvious to think that the snow has a cold heart, but I think 
grammatically it could also mean that it's given with a cold heart, 
that is in a cold-hearted way, compare: miþ gariudein jah inahein 
fetjandans sik "adording themselves with modesty and sobriety" (in a 
modest and sober way); iddjuh...miþ skeiman "and went with lamps".

Llama Nom

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