Neologisms....

[Fredrik]

Hi all!

Thank you all for your suggestions. I guess that it doesn't takes a 
genius to understand what I'm tryin to do...at least Llama Nom have 
figured it out :)
That part you translated will I compare to mine...I have done just a 
little bit of it yet, but I haven't got the time and all these lack 
of words makes it only more diffucult and takes more time.

I see you (Llama) have written the names (like Maitairnih) in a 
gothic orthografy. I thought about it too, and czechian have Bedrech 
for german Friedrich. What do you think bout Karl Marks and 
Frithureiks Aiggels, or something like that, instead of their real 
spellings?

About oppress I have looked at words like wrikan, wrakjan and kaurjan 
and I thought at that time that these wheren't exactly the same as 
oppress. Persecution doesn't have to be involved in oppresion, right? 
A oppressed people could just be discriminated or be cut out of some 
rights etc.

About discover I also thought about finthan, and I might be totaly 
wrong about this but I think that is more like if you are looking 
fore something and then find it. Anyway I think andhuljan could be a 
good choice.

Already existing words are sometimes the most difficult. Coz I think 
the definition of the words aint always the same as I'm looking for, 
even though they are very similar.

--- Fredrik

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell at o...> wrote:
>
> 
> Hails Fredrik!
> 
> Some convincing suggestions there.  We could go for a calque of the 
> Latinate "corporation", *leikoþus, mu (or yes, *ga-leikinassus, 
> although that sounds very much like `lekinessus' "healing", 
actually 
> spelt `leikinassus' at L 9,15), but I personally would favour a 
more 
> internally self-explicable compound.  How about something like: *ga-
> waurki-hansa "profit company/band/cohort"?  `hansa' is a cohort, a 
> body of men/soldiers in Gothic, but in Middle German was applied to 
> a group of people joined for business purposes, the Hanse 
(Hanseatic 
> League).
> 
> "Steam" -- well, we´ve got `milhma' "cloud".  What are the oldest 
> words for mist and steam in German?  We could have a German 
inspired 
> *damps, or a English/Dutch/Frisian inspired *staums, ma, or a Norse 
> + German inspired *nibls, ma.  Or *rauks, mi., whose cognates 
> mean "smoke" or "steam" (this has wide currency throughout the 
> Germanic lands).  Or as Oscar suggests, Greek via Dutch inspired 
> *gas, a modern invented word.  In fact, Oscar's compound idea would 
> be good for specific vapours:
> 
> wata-rauks, mi., *wata-nibls, ma.  water vapour
> sunna-stabi-rauks, mi.  helium (sun-element-gas), see below...
> *in-giba-nibls, ma, *aitra-rauks, mi.  toxic vapour
> 
> Oscar´s suggestion, corrected to something along the lines of 
`midja-
> aldeis', sounds good for the Middle Ages, which had feudal social 
> structures.  As for the feudal system itself, Medieval 
> Latin `feudum', `feodum' is supposed to be of Germanic origin, 
> swaswe þiudans unsar gemelida, but the exact etymology is 
> problematic.
> 
> under FEE, the Oxford English dictionary has:
> 
> "a. AF. fee, fie = OF. fé, fié, *fiet (app. implied in fiez pl.), 
> fief, fieu, fiu, Pr. feo, feu, fieu, It. fio (prob. from Fr. or 
Pr.; 
> the Langobardic Lat. faderfium is a compound of Teut. fehu FEE 
n.1), 
> med.L. feodum, feudum (first cited by Du Cange from a charter of 
> Charles the Fat, A.D. 884), also fevum, feum, fedium, in Sicily 
> fegum. 
>   The mutual relation of the various Romanic and med.L. forms is 
> somewhat obscure. According to some scholars, fief is a vbl. n. f. 
> fiever to grant in fee, f. fieu, which, as well as the other forms 
> of the n., descends from feodum or its Teut. source. The ultimate 
> etymology is uncertain. A prevalent view is that the word is f. 
OHG. 
> fehu cattle, property, money (= FEE n.1), + ôd wealth, property. 
> This must be rejected, because such an etymology could directly 
> yield no other sense than that of `movable property', which is very 
> remote from the sense of feodum as used in early records, viz. 
> usufruct granted in requital of service (often opposed to alodis, 
> originally meaning `inheritance'); cf. the synonyms, Ger. lehen, 
OE. 
> laen (the same word as Eng. loan), and L. beneficium, i.e. 
something 
> granted to a subject by the kindness of his lord. A more tenable 
> theory is that the OF. fiu is an adoption of the Teut. fehu in the 
> contextual sense of `wages, payment for service'; the Rom. word 
> certainly had this meaning (see branch II below), and it is 
> conceivable that the feudal sense is a specific application of it. 
> The d of the L. forms, feudum, feodum, however, is left unexplained 
> by this hypothesis; some regard it as a euphonic insertion 
> (comparing It. chiodo nail from vulgar L. *clo-um from clavum); 
> others think that it is due to the analogy of allodium; and others 
> suppose feudum to be a vbl. n. f. feudare = feum dare; but each of 
> these views involves serious difficulties. It is not impossible 
that 
> two originally distinct words may have been confused. A conjecture 
> proposed by Prof. Kern, and approved by some German jurists, is 
that 
> feodum represents an OHG. *fehôd, related to the vb. fehôn, which 
is 
> recorded only in the sense `to eat, feed upon', but is supposed on 
> etymological grounds to have had the wider meaning `to take for 
> one's enjoyment'. This would account fairly well for the sense, but 
> involves too much hypothesis to be accepted with confidence. It is 
> curious, if the word be of Teut. formation, that there is no direct 
> proof of its having existed in any Teut. language, nor is it found 
> even in the L. text of the Frankish laws."
> 
> From the last suggestion, we might get Got.
> 
> *faíhoþus, mu.  fief
> *faíhoþisks, a.  feudal.
> 
> For manufacture I´ve been toying with the idea of: *handu-taui, -
> waurstw "hand-work", *handu-taweins, -waukeins "hand-
> making/working".  But since the referrence to hands is just an 
> accident of Latin etymology, how about *ga-smiþons, 
> fi.  "production, manufacture", from the attested verb `ga-smiþon'.
> 
> "Condition, stipulation", hmm, I´m still pondering that one.  To me 
> the word `stipulation' implies not so much an agreement (gaqiss, 
> samaqiss, trausti, triggwa) as a demand (?) or requirement (Got. 
> þaurfts) or a term that must be met.  But looking now, I see that 
> the sense of an agreed term is given in dictionaries.  Maybe that's 
> more of a specialised legal sense?  I was thinking of ON `kostr', 
> but then that's more of a term granted, I think, than a 
> requirement.  What other old Germanic words can we think of?
> 
> Yes, 'andwairþs' is "present", which might include "modern", 
> although I suppose the New Testament examples tend to contrast 
> present unpleasantness with future relief, whereas the English 
> word "modern" contrasts the present with the past.  Maybe 'niujis' 
> would be a better fit in some contexts?  Another possibility, 'nu' 
> used as an indeclinable adjective (albeit matching Greek NUN), as 
at 
> 2Tim 4,10 'frijonds þo nu ald' "loving the present age".
> 
> Your suggestion *andwaibjan, which sounds as if it could literally 
> mean "unwind", makes a plausible calque 
for "develop", "entwickeln", 
> etc.  I would suggest that for the intransitive form, the reflexive 
> pronoun would normally follow the verb, thus: *andwaibjan sik.  
This 
> is the rule where the reflexive pronoun completes the sense of the 
> verb (where the verb would have a different meaning without it) or 
> where it just serves to make a verb intransitive, gafalh sik `hid 
> (himself)'.  The exceptional word order of 2Cor 12,10 'mis 
> galeikaiþ' I suspect might be due to exceptional emphasis: "me, I 
> take pleasure in illnesses [unlike other apostles who brag about 
> more normal things like visions and revelations]".  But reflexive 
> pronouns may come before the verb where they have a full meaning of 
> their own independent of the verb, corresponding to 
> English "themselves", etc.  Even there though, they can follow the 
> verb if not emphatic: gawasida sik "dressed (clothed themselves)", 
> ataugidedum sik "appeared (showed themselves)".  Compare:
> 
> ni uslaubjandein faur mel sik gahaban "not allowing himself to be 
> captured prematurely"
> ungahabandans sik "without self-restraint, (morally) incontinent"
> 
> In the first example, 'gahaban' has its ordinary meaning, and 'sik' 
> is just reflexive.  In the 2nd, 'sik' alters the meaning.
> 
> Other words meaning to grow: liudan, keinan, wahsjan.
> 
> element.  Your *grundu-stoma seems a fair suggestion, as far as I 
> can see.  Cf. also: uf stabim þis fairhvaus "under the elements of 
> this world".  Greek hUPO TA STOXEIA "under the letters" (which 
might 
> be what inspired this translation) or "under the elements", or 
> anything arranged in sequence.  A Gothic marginal gloss 
> explains 'stabim' as 'tugglam', dat.pl. of *tuggl,
> neuter--cognate with OE tungol "heavenly body", ON tungl "moon".
> 
> I can think of a few on you list for which Gothic words are 
attested 
> already:
> 
> form.  laudi, fjo, hiwi, nja., farw, na?, galeiki, nja
> oppress.  (persecute) wrikan, sv. V., wrakjan, wv. 1.; (oppress as 
> troubles) ana-praggan, sv. VII.; (oppress, burden) kaurjan, wv. 1.; 
> (burden, weigh down with) af-hlaþan, sv. VI. 
> oppression.  (persecution) wraka, wrakja, sf., wrekei, wf.
> discover.  finþan, III.  (A Gothic word formed in a similar way to 
> the German 'entdecken' is 'andhuljan', which Wright glosses 
> as "uncover, disclose, reveal, open".)
> 
> Some more suggestions:
> 
> *boka-leisei, fin.  literature.
> *ga-maini-hansa, fo.  collective.
> *faihu-fasteis, mja.  economist.
> *faihu-leisei, fin.  finance, economics.
> *stoma-stafs (b), mi.  chemical element.
> *tuggla-fasteis, mja.  astronomer.
> *tuggla-leisei, fin.  astronomy.
> *wisti-fasteis, mja.  physicist.
> *wisti-leisei, fin.  physics.
> *wisti-stafs (b), mi.  elementary particle.
> *wokra-hansa, fo.  banking company.
> 
> 
> Now you can write:
> 
> Skohsl Aiwropa hvoteiþ, skohsl gamainduþiskeins.  Ainhvarjizuh 
> Aiwropos reike in weiha triggwa gagahaftida sik du usdreiban 
> unhulþon þo: Rumos papa, Russalandis kaisar, Maitairnih jah Gizo, 
> uswaltjands ana Fragkam, sahsiskai wardiferjans.  Hvar ist sa 
> andstandanda hiuhma, þammei fram þaim waldufni habandam andastaþjam 
> seinaim, ni gasakada bi, þatei gamainduþisks sijai?
> 
> Llama Nom
>






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