question relating to Wielbark and Scandinavian burial customs

[Tore Gannholm]

Konrad,
I presume you have no problem reading Swedish.
Have you read Mårten Stenberger, Det Forntida Sverige?

You find it in my private research library  http://www.stavgard.com/ 
romaniron/stenberger_/forromerskj_/aldstajarnalder/default.htm

He writes among other things

Annorlunda förhåller det sig på Gotland. Där har på senare tid den  
arkeologiska aspekten undergått stora förändningar. Några lösfynd var  
tidigare kända
därifrån, huvudsakligen bygelnålar av brons och järn ävensom ett  
mindre antal
brand- och skelettgravar med liknande nålar. Dessa skelettgravar  
väckte tidigt
uppmärksamhet, eftersom samtida sådana inte var kända från andra håll i
Norden. Genom omfattande fältundersökningar av Erik Nylén har de  
gotländska fynden ökats i anmärkningsvärd grad och en mängd nya  
brand- och
skelettgravar tillkommit. Jordandet har inte varit en  
undantagsföreteelse utan
ett allmänt tillämpat gravskick på ön under denna tid. De döda har  
nedlagts
i kistor av sten, ibland kanske av trä, under flat mark eller täckta  
av flacka,
runda, ofta omfångsrika stenrösen. Vid slutet av bronsåldern har  
alltså jordandet återinförts på Gotland och tillämpats under  
åtminstone hela övergångstiden
för att sedan försvinna igen, s. 334. Först vid den romerska  
järnålderns början
åtenvänder bruket på nytt, denna gång genom inflytanden från  
germankulturerna på kontinenten. Därefter vidmakthölls det under den  
följande förhistoriska tiden vid sidan av likbränningen för att vid  
kristendomens införande bli
allenarådande.


You can also find quite a lot of literature in my sources
http://www.stavgard.com/historia/sources_/default.htm

I am trying to collect as much sources as possible in my private  
research library.

Tore

On Jan 25, 2006, at 7:17 PM, akoddsson wrote:

> Tore, thank you for the link below.
> I have been reading about iron age scandinavian burial customs for
> some time, even visiting sites myself. Also, in reading about the
> Wielbark finds some months ago, I quickly noticed that they matched
> the overall scandinavian pattern. This book also confirms this.
> However, one thing which is not explained here, or in other sources
> that I have seen, is the difference about cremation and inhumation
> burials, which is found in the Wielbark culture and throughout all
> of Scandinavian during this period. What I am wondering is, why were
> some members burned and others inhumed? This book mentions a young
> girl inhumed over an older cremation grave, and similar mixes occur
> widely in the archeaological finds from this period. There must have
> been some reason why occasional inhumations occured in a culture
> which otherwise cremated its dead, like other IE folk. IE religion,
> as attested in Hinduism, for example, strongly favours cremation,
> and various theological reasons are given for this, such as the view
> that man is spirit and not matter; furthermore, there is no belief
> in a future physical recurrection of bodies from the earth, such as
> in the semetic traditions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam). Clearly,
> Goths from the Wielbark area, as from Gotland, and Scandinavians
> more widely, shared a common view about the insignificance of the
> body after death, which was generally cremated. However, we do find
> inhumations as well. The question is: why? Do you know of links to
> articles on this topic, footnotes or comments about it, etc.? One
> thing that I suspect, but cannot confirm, is the existence of some
> kind of legal stricture about the cremation/inhumation issue in the
> oral laws of this period, probably connected to a religious belief
> of some kind. Otherwise, one suspects that either form of burial
> would become quickly universal at the expense of the other. This is
> not what the archeaological record shows. On the contrary, the two
> forms coexist throughout the entire roman iron age, even as far back
> as 1000BC in Scandinavia (which is technically later Scandinavian
> bronze age), but with cremation as the clear overall victor, both in
> sites where inhumation also occurs, as well as in those where only
> cremation occurs (sites vary widely in the number of finds, etc.).
> Finally, let me rephrase my question: what was the reason for the
> simulteaneous occurance of cremation and inhumation over such a long
> period? Why did inhumation not just die out completely, but instead
> staggered along in the shadow of cremation for such a long period?
> Could there have been a legal stricture, or belief, which caused the
> continued inhumation of certain individuals, but not most? Could the
> age of the deceased, for instance, have had something to do with it,
> social position, manner of death, or reputation?
>
> Regards,
> Konrad.
>
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, Tore Gannholm <tore at g...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> Have you read Kaliff's book "Gothic connections"
>>
>>
> http://www.stavgard.com/Gotland/gothicconnectio_/gothic/default.htm
>>
>> Tore
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 25, 2006, at 11:16 AM, Wilhelm Otto wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Gothic list,
>>>
>>> Is this a chat list just for the language itself or for a wider
>>> approach to
>>> the gothic culture, as history?
>>>
>>> If it serves the later purpose as well I will raise a subject.
> I
>>> have just
>>> read Peter Heather:
>>>
>>> "The Goths" and this book gives me an entirely new view of the
> old
>>> gothic
>>> world. He tells us about Jordanes' Gethica and claims that it is
> among
>>> contemporary historians Jordanes' fault that people still
> believe
>>> the Goths
>>> originated in Scandinavia before moving across the Baltic.
>>> Secondly, from at
>>> least the the third century the Goths was divided into two
> groups: the
>>> Visgoths and the Ostrogoths and thirdly that these groups were
> led
>>> by two
>>> families with unique royal prestige, the Balthi and the Amals.
>>>
>>> These ideas, Peter Heather says, have set an agenda around
> which
>>> argument
>>> has raged.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have been trying to discuss the first of these topics, the
>>> exodus, on a
>>> Swedish chat list and am very confused by the response. There
> are
>>> members
>>> who claim there has been an exodus, although Peter Heather
> claims
>>> that the
>>> dating of relevant objects from both sides of the Baltic shows
> that
>>> there
>>> has been none. And Peter Heather seems to be a man who to day
>>> carries the
>>> weight of argument. I have a general feeling that in Sweden the
> Gothic
>>> exodus is a valueloaded topic, and that it is difficult to give
> it
>>> a fair
>>> treatment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For me this is a matter of preserving my bearings in a world I
>>> thought was
>>> rational, at least in these circumstances.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is this a topic for the Gothic list?
>>>
>>> Wilhelm Otto
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a  
> blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>. 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/