Was the word "kunig/kunigas/kunigur" a gothic word?

Tue Sep 19 17:45:38 UTC 2006

Hi, David, Ingemar, Michael and Ualarauans

In the following message I answer particularly to David and 
Ualarauans messages (yesterday)
( I didn't read at the moment the message you sent today)

If you have some more time to discuss with me about the origin of 
the name Canigo, you might read the summary of my study about that.

I listed the various serious assumptions made by other people.
I added some other assumptions I found.
Keeping only assumptions making sense in terms of roots and 
signification, the result was 20 assumptions.
Among them I put away 15 because of less probability considering 
local rules for phonetic evolution of words, or considering other 
various fine criteria. 
The assumption "cani gula" is among them.
4 assumptions of the 5 remaining are proto-basque or celtic; the 5th 
is the gothic I'm completing with you. 
Let me tell you the 4 others:
--- "khani goi" imitating the basque expression "gaini goi", 
meaning "over the mounts"
or "khan+igo" imitating the basque word "gainago (comparative form 
gain+ago)" meaning "higher mount".
For both versions, meaning, language and roots are the same.
 Note :"khan" is my way to write here the pre-indoeuropean 
root "Kha/Khan/Kra
"meaning successively  "fang"/ tooth / keen 
summit / mount / head / master /keen. Think about "Ganesha" in Hindi 
language , the "master of the mountains".
--- "khan-i-Guh" imitating the tadjik expression "kuh-i-Koh", 
meaning "Mount of God" 
Note : in basque language God is "Jainko" = Lord Ko. For me "Ko" 
or "Koh" is on the same root that "khork"="high" in finnish 
language. This is the pre-indoeuropean root I write "Goh/Hoh/Koh". 
In various languages God is named the "Very High"
--- "khan-i-goh" meaning "keen and high" 
Note : in catalan language "i" has the meaning of "and". Catalan is 
very far from Latin, but this "i", like the "y" in spanish language, 
seems to come from Slavic countries. 
--- "khan-i-gus" meaning "dog's tooth" , in relation with a celtic 
root I write "gus" (think to french word "gosier" and catalan 
word "gous" = "dog"
 and Chinese word "gou" ="dog"  
I'm not proud of this one. But it's the more popular assumption here 
because of the French word "canine" and the catalan word "gous".

I prefer the gothic assumption for two reasons:
--- normally in this part of Europe the "kh" pre-indoeuropean was 
muted in a "G" or a Spanish "J" (jota). "Canigo" would have 
been "Ganigo" 
--- there is no mention of a mountain name similar to Canigo by the 
grecian and roman authors. 
Some of them (for example Strabo, Ptolemee, Pline and Avenius) 
described the region and peoples, but the Canigo is not distinguish 
in what they call "mount Pyrene", name given first by Grecians to 
the set of mounts they could see arriving from Greece or from 
Massilia by boat in Emporion. 
That's not normal because at that time stones for iron were 
everywhere on the soil in a circle of 20 kms around the Canigo. And 
we know that people from "Pyrenae latera" where rich since the 6th 
cent.BC selling iron.

Last winter I had the chance to discover a very strange story. 
Between 310 and 360, Stevus, the owner of the main domain with iron 
near the Canigo, and his son Stevulus have had the power to change 
(or create) 126 names of villages (40 kms around) and to give names 
to some mounts. 
I don't find if Stevus gave his name to the Canigo (before 
Visigoths), but Stevulus gave his name to the first mount  near the 
Canigo few meters lower than the Canigo, and Stevus gave his name to 
the 3 villages on the side of the Canigo, where there was more iron 
on (and in) the soil . "Villa Stevi"  is now "Vaillestavi" , 
and "Cortus Stevi"  is now "Corsavi" and "Astevo hero" is 
now "Estoer" (names in catalan). 
They used all these 132 names to "write" sentences in relation with 
their religion. They were Christians arians, like Constantin and his 
sons. And I suppose they will send messages to the future because 
they were leaders at the time of the first christians around the 
Canigo.
So I found the original names in Latin looking on the muted names 
written in the 9th or 10th century, around 150 years after the end 
of Visigothic kingdom. A lot were so changed that nobody found this 
text before me.
This work gave me evolutions of pronouncing for 132 names after 5 or 
6 centuries.
I can see some rules for consonants, but for vowels there are more 
exceptions than rules.
I will give you examples.   

But before that, I have to finish my story :
Visigoths came there in 414, and I suppose they took control of the 
mines from Stevulus'son.
As the Canigo is for this region like the church tower in a village, 
it could have been symbolic to rename this mount in order to show 
the new power of the King of Visigoths on the iron market.  
An alternative reason to give the name "Kuniggs hauh" could be the 
majesty of the Canigo (like Fujijama in Japan)

Coming now on the linguist side:
I know that the syllable "Kan" and "Kon/Kun" where very resistant to 
the time in various languages. 
So normally a word pronounced [kuninga] or an expression pronounced 
[kuningahauhi:]     
could not mute to some word starting with the sound "kan".
Among my 132 names I don't have a "con" becoming a "can"; but we 
have at least 2 "o" becoming "a". Examples (I suppose you read 
Latin):
---"Orbus Solis ! Mos est novus Deus!", written in 313, 
became "Arbussolas (950) Mosseto (10th cent.  Nosèdes (888)"
--- « Tobit evolue : (de) patri oculis privis luce", written in 
359,  became "Taltevul (11e c.)  Paziols (13e c) Perelons (12e c).
An other example is the name "Catalunya" coming from "Gothia 
longitana" ("longitanus" became "llunya" in catalan language)  
= "Country where Goths are living far away from their proper 
country".

As you can see we can't apply the normal phonetic rules here during 
the first part of he Middle Age.
For 3 reasons:
---It's toponomic names ; after 3 generations the meaning is 
forgotten, particularly if there is no connexion with the landscape.
--- Visigothic way of speaking Latin modified vernacular speaking 
more rapidly than if they were not there.
--- The first mentions in the 9th and 10th centuries are made by 
catholic monks coming from the North of France because the King of 
France wanted to destroy definitely the late arianism in Septimania. 
These monks made a lot of misunderstanding trying to write what they 
think having a sense in what they were listening. (All the ancient 
documents could have been destroyed by Arabs, or by the Catholic 
Church coming over an heretic arian country 
For example : "Villa Stevi", probably not changed during Visigoths 
reigns became "Valle Stavia" ( 3 "a" invented and 1 "a" deleted). 
The "a" of the name "Canigo" could be because they thought the name 
was "Cane agu" ( "Cane" was "tooth" in normando-picard  and "agu(d)" 
was "keen" in a large part of France.
This meaning make sense for the Canigo. Despite this "Cane agu",  
I'm sure that monks didn't give this name to the Canigo because they 
never change radically a name in the region, and they would not have 
written the name in Latin "Kanigo, Kanigonis". 

For the mutation of [kuninga]  or the [kuningahauhi:]  between 415 
and 875 (first mention) it was nearly the same effects. The second 
is changed:
Visigothic pronunciation  was not well spoken by people living there 
before the arrival of Visigoths. 

You explained the "–ingo". Let me explain how the "n" could be 
destroyed on an other example of Stevi Codex :
"Tunc anni Paterni Cucucuquieno",written in 359, became  "Tuxsani
(1119)...Padernum (805)...Cucunianum (951)" 
Note :Cucucuquieno is a way to write the date CCCLIX

There is no problem for the "a" or the "hi:" at the end . 
People living in "Pre-catalonia" shortened very often toponomic 
names , and also the Latin:
For example : 
"canis" became "ca"; "panis" became "pa";  "facet" became "fa.

I will now ask you new questions:

1.Is your "a" at the end of [kuninga] pronounced like "account" or 
like "ago"?

2. I understand that there is more probability that the Visigoths 
came with the word "kuniggs" meaning "noble", than with this word 
meaning "king" . Is it true? 
In that case, I ask you what is the adjective in Gothic 
having "kunig" as root ? (like "königlich" in german)

3. Have you a reason to explain more the mutation of [kuninga]  to 
Canigo than mutation from  [kuningahauhi:]  to Canigo ?

At the end of our discussion , the conclusion cold be :
"Now , with the existence of the Canigo we are able to attest that 
Visigoths coming in Spain have had "kuniggs", or some word similar, 
in their vocabulary in the 5th century before they forget gothic" 

Note : I read that they could read (or understand when the priest 
was reading) the Gothic Bible until the 7th century.

Thanks for your attention.

Friendly
Michel

P.S. 
1--Like french carolingian monks I think at 3 other ways to 
reconstruct "Canigo" through "gothic words:
--- "Kuniggs Gu"  (= "Lord God"), created like "Jainko" in basque 
language.
--- "Kunia Gu" (= "God of  (our) kin" )
--- "Kunia hauh" ( = "Hight of (our) kin") like the name of the hill 
near Ingemar's home. 

2—Stevus or Stevulus could not have choosen one of the assumptions 
for Canigo I imagined in Latin; like "Cani gula" or "Caniculus" 
or "Canicula"(the star Sirius) or "Canetus". These are not in their 
register. If they gave a name to the mountain, it was not "Canigo".

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "ualarauans" <ualarauans at ...> wrote:
>
> Hails, Daweid
> 
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, David Kiltz <derdron@> wrote:
> >
> > On 18.09.2006, at 08:27, michelsauvant wrote:
> > 
> > > In his message Ualarauans wrote "kunendzi" for Old Church 
> Slavonic.
> > > And you wrote "k'nenz'"
> > 
> > *_kune.gu_ is a reconstructed Proto-Slavonic form (both _u_'s are
> > short, e nasalised).
> > The attested OCS form is _kune.dzi_ (both _u_ and _i_ short, _e_
> > nasalised).
> 
> Yes, that's exactly what I meant with my [kunendzi] fearing to see 
> weird symbols and characters in place of a more accurate 
kÚnędzÜ. 
> Ach, they come again...
> 
> > This word exhibits the so-called 3. or 'progressive'
> > palatalisation typical of OCS. Cf. also _pêne.dzi_ 'money' < 
(Low)
> > German _penning_. Contrast that with _kune.gyn'i_ 'lady, 
duchess'.
> 
> The 3rd palatalization doesn't normally come in effect before the 
> following Ú (reduced [u]). It should have been *kÚne.gÚ resp. 
> *pEne.gÚ. It's either the influence of oblique cases (Gen. 
> kÚne.dz'a, pEne.dz'a) or a change of stem vowel a > ja.
> 
> Ualarauans
>

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