Was the word "kunig/kunigas/kunigur" a gothic word?

[ualarauans]

Hi Michel

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "michelsauvant" <michelsauvant at ...> 
wrote:
>
> I listed the various serious assumptions made by other people.
> I added some other assumptions I found.
> <...>
> 4 assumptions of the 5 remaining are proto-basque or celtic; the 
5th
> is the gothic I'm completing with you.
> Let me tell you the 4 others:
> --- "khani goi" imitating the basque expression "gaini goi",
> meaning "over the mounts"
> or "khan+igo" imitating the basque word "gainago (comparative form
> gain+ago)" meaning "higher mount".
> For both versions, meaning, language and roots are the same.

Of the assumptions you listed I'd find these Basque best, both for 
historical and phonetic reasons. A proto-Basque name could later 
have been adapted to some Romance words, _cane_ as "tooth" or "dog" 
among them.

> Note : in catalan language "i" has the meaning of "and". Catalan is
> very far from Latin, but this "i", like the "y" in spanish 
language,
> seems to come from Slavic countries.

I'd doubt this. Much more likely it is a form descending from Latin 
_et_. We should be very careful when meeting similar-sounding words 
in even neighboring languages, because they can easily prove to be 
of a quite different origin. A classical example is the word _fiu_ 
which we find both in Hungarian and Romanian meaning the same, 
i.e. "son". What more? Hungary and Romania are bordering countries, 
and their languages had a lot of interaction in history. But in 
fact, Hungarian is a Finno-Ugric language and its _fiu_ is cognate 
to _poika_ "son" in Finnish, another Finno-Ugric language, while 
Romanian is Romance and has inherited its _fiu_ from Latin _filius_.

> Coming now on the linguist side:
> I know that the syllable "Kan" and "Kon/Kun" where very resistant 
to
> the time in various languages.
> So normally a word pronounced [kuninga] or an expression pronounced
> [kuningahauhi:]
> could not mute to some word starting with the sound "kan".
> Among my 132 names I don't have a "con" becoming a "can"; but we
> have at least 2 "o" becoming "a". Examples (I suppose you read
> Latin):
> ---"Orbus Solis ! Mos est novus Deus!", written in 313,
> became "Arbussolas (950) Mosseto (10th cent.  Nosèdes (888)"
> --- « Tobit evolue : (de) patri oculis privis luce", written in
> 359,  became "Taltevul (11e c.)  Paziols (13e c) Perelons (12e c).
> An other example is the name "Catalunya" coming from "Gothia
> longitana" ("longitanus" became "llunya" in catalan language)
> = "Country where Goths are living far away from their proper
> country".

I heard an interpretation of Catalonia as Gotho-Alania. In which 
case both a's are carried over from -alan- (???). Very dubious 
though. In Ossetic (still living survivor of Alanian), as far as I 
heard, these hybrid would sound *Gut-Allon.

> 1.Is your "a" at the end of [kuninga] pronounced like "account" or
> like "ago"?

I'd suppose it was like in "but", short and unstressed, therefore 
apt to get reduced and altered.

> 2. I understand that there is more probability that the Visigoths
> came with the word "kuniggs" meaning "noble", than with this word
> meaning "king" . Is it true?

To the time of the settling down in Septimania The Visigoths had had 
and were still having dealings with many West-Germanic tribes which 
used this word (West-Germanic *kuning) to refer to their kings. Even 
if Gothic *kuniggs had meant something else before (e.g. was 
retaining the supposedly original semantics "nobleman"), it couldn't 
help getting influenced by the "king"-meaning in other Germanic 
languages. I wonder if it was possible that the Goths used *kuniggs 
to specifically refer to the kings of their West-Germanic rivals 
while keeping old good thiudans for theirs? For example, some 
retired Visigothic bard would sing of the famous battle at Vouille 
in 507 AD:

Warth than waihjo in Waugladis aujom
Undar Alareik godana Gutane thiudan
Jah Hluthaweih frikana Fragkane kunigg...

Interea Chlodouechus rex cum Alarico rege Gothorum in campo 
Uogladense decimo ab urbe Pictaua militario conuenit...
(Gregory of Tours, Historia Francorum, II, 37)

> In that case, I ask you what is the adjective in Gothic
> having "kunig" as root ? (like "königlich" in german)

I'd suggest *kuniggisks [kuningisks], but we lack attested examples 
of adjectives formed from nouns ending in –iggs. If you mean smth 
like "royal", "noble", "of the king's descent", it could be 
*kuniggakunds [kuningakunds] probably as well.

> 3. Have you a reason to explain more the mutation of [kuninga]  to
> Canigo than mutation from  [kuningahauhi:]  to Canigo ?
> 
> At the end of our discussion , the conclusion cold be :
> "Now , with the existence of the Canigo we are able to attest that
> Visigoths coming in Spain have had "kuniggs", or some word similar,
> in their vocabulary in the 5th century before they forget gothic"

I think it's a long way still to go to make such a conclusion :)

Ualarauans






You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>. 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:gothic-l-digest at yahoogroups.com 
    mailto:gothic-l-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/