Drus Griutinge - swesa namna (Idumings, Gunþiruna et al)

[ualarauans]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "ualarauans" <ualarauans at ...> 
wrote:
> > 
> > What's the meaning of Idumiggos?
> 
> The Idumings are named in the Old English poem Widsith, line 87, 
along
> with the Ests, right before a mention of Ermanaric.
> 
> ond mid Eolum ond mid Istum . ond Idumingum.
> Ond ic wæs mid Eormanrice . ealle þrage,
> 
> There are two main theories about these: (1) that the name is a
> learned interpolation, being an Anglicisation of the Biblical
> Edomites; (2) that they were a Baltic people, perhaps the same as 
the
> Ydumaei, mentioned by Henry of Ymera in the Chronicon Lyvoniae.
> Chambers favours the latter idea (Chambers, pp. 250-252).

Yes, I also thought of the Edomites when seeing Idumiggos. It could 
well be also an early Gothicization of the name, providing a proof 
for D'Alquen's theory of i for both short [i] and [e] and u - for 
[u] and [o]. Plus the Germanic patronymic –ing-, of course.

> > Iþ galgin ridun / Gunþirunos "But upon the gallows rode Godrun's"
> > – I guess there's some ON or OE or maybe Gothic metaphor behind 
it?
> > Could you please tell us? Gunþiruna – *walakuzjo?
> 
> In Norse legend, Guðrún's sons were Sörli and Hamðir and Erpr.  Her
> daughter Svanhildr (Jord. Sunilda; mss. variants: Sunielh, Sunihil 
<
> Go. *Sunjahildi) was given in marriage to Jörmunrekkr (Ermanaric), 
who
> had her trampled to death with horses -- in Völsunga saga because
> suspects her of adultery with his son Randvér; in Snorra Edda the
> trampling seems more impromptu, and the motive isn't made explicit,
> although the account there is just a brief summary.  Sörli and 
Hamðir
> ride alone to Gothland where they try to take revenge on 
Jörmunrekkr.
>   (Guðrún has given them armour that makes them immune to iron
> weapons.)  They manage to chop off his arms and legs, but don't 
have a
> chance to chop off his head before someone (either Jörmunrekkr or
> Odin, depending on the version) suggests throwing stones at them.
> That's how they die.  I imagined them as being on the gallows as a
> warning to others; when they arrive at Jörmunrekkr's hall in 
Hamðismál
> (14), it says that they find their "sister's son" hanging on a
> gallows.  Jörmunrekkr also threatens to bind them with bowstrings 
and
> hang them on the gallows (Hamðismál 21).  See also the Eddic poem
> Guðrúnarhvöt "Godrun's Incitement", Saxo's Gesta Danorum, and
> Ragnarsdrápa by Bragi Boddason.

How could I fail to see that Gunþiruna = ON Guðrún! Of course I knew 
that story. But thank you very much for your reminding. I'm sure I 
was just under a spell of your skaldskapr.

BTW, you reconstruct *Sunjahildi, not *Swanahildi after ON 
Svanhildr. Probably it was a change like Sigurðr for continental 
Siegfried (not Siegwart) or Gottormr for Burgundian Godomaris, right?

> > Augeis kunjis "of Augis's kin"
> 
> Jordanes names 'Augis' among the early kings/ancestors of the 
Goths.
> Hence Augeis kuni = the Gothic people.

Yes, I saw that name in Getica, but I thought it was a distortion of 
a name on –gais, something like Audagais or the like (cf. Andagis 
for *Andagais and a lot of other examples). And if really *Augeis, 
what could it mean?

> > Hraide "of the Hred-Goths" – I guess you have an example of such 
a
> > usage in ON or OE?
> 
> Yes, e.g. Widsith: "full oft þæ´r wíg ne alæg, þonne Hræ´da here
> heardum sweordum ymb Wistlawudu wergan sceoldun ealdne éþelstól 
Ætlan
> léodum."

I see that I have to re-read the Old English poems. In fact, I was 
reading them very superficially and that was years ago.

> > Uldinis ... arbjans "Uldin's heirs" – I guess it's the same Uldin
> > who was mentioned as a leader of the Danube Huns about 400 CE. 
Could
> > the Huns of the Invasion time (375 CE) be called "Uldin's heirs"?
> 
> I considered this and have two excuses prepared ;-)  (1) Legendary
> chronology is naturally vague and anachronistic, even in direct
> speech, cf. the quote from Widsith above (this is my main 
excuse!) --
> just the sort of traditional epithet or kenning that appears in
> Germanic epic poetry, not always with strict regard to its 
immediate
> context; (2) different Uldin maybe?  An ancestor of the one who 
made
> himself known to classical historians?

Yes, I think your first excuse beats off all critics. In Germanic 
epics we indeed find persons acting together who in reality were 
divided by many tens of years, like Audawakrs and Airmanareiks. But 
the variant of Uldins Uldinis sunus us kunja Uldinigge with a motto 
on his shield "Semper Uldin" is also good to think of!

Ualarauans

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