Toledo

[frederick_s_74110]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> Is it possible to draw any conclusions from Germanic place names about
> how long Gothic may have survived in Provence and Iberia?
> 
> LN
> 
> 
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "raul catalan ramos"
> <shaitani1348@> wrote:
> >
> > I have "argued" about this point with my friends several times.From
> my point 
> > of view, according to the number of words inherited from east
> germanic, it 
> > is very unlikely the employ of gothic by goths in Hispania, becasuse
> most of 
> > germanic words in nowadays spanish is limited to only a handful
> examples (as 
> >   "guerra" (written "Werra"  in the ancient sources , meaning
"war") or 
> > "bosque" meaning "forest", both of them nearby the same as the
> italian words 
> > for war, "guerra", and   forest,"bosco"). On the other hand, the
> lack of 
> > written sources in gothic can't be used to deny the employ of gothic
> among 
> > goths in hispania, because the written sources from this period are
> closely 
> > related to the highest elites of society, whose focus was the roman
> (and  
> > then bizantine) culture and the employ of Latin. I agree with the
> idea that 
> > gothic vanished in a few generations, but I think that it must
> endured for 
> > some time in rural areas far from the cities.
> > 
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>
The Goths and Visigoths migrated from the area of the Hellespont and
the land adjacent to what is known as modern Ukraine. I know many
enjoy ascribing the status of "germani" to them, but this is due to
the Roman habit of calling everyone "germani", much like the Greeks
calling everyone not Greek "barbaroi". The Goths and Visigoths
requested permission from the Roman Emperor to occupy the area known
as Catalonia in the 3rd Century AD. Since they were valuable and
appreciated colonial/associate forces their request was granted. The
area of Spain to which they migrated had been devastated by pestilence
and their presence offered much needed protection. They remained as a
cultural force there until the Moslem Invasion of 780 AD. The language
of Catalan remains the most vital evidence of Gothic and Visigothic
linguistic influence. However, the fanatical exclusion of any language
other than Spanish from the time of the reconquest to the death of
Franco could have effected the destruction of any written
Gothic/Visigothic evidence. 

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