Attila's speech

[Guenther Ramm]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroup s.com, Frederick Louis Scoggins
<scoggins3375@ ...> wrote:
>
> ualarauans wrote:
> >
> > [snipped my translation attempt]
> 
> Dear Ualarauans,
>
> After this short message I shall unsubscribe from the Gothic
newsletter.
> First you are obviously deceived into thinking that the entire
writtings
> of Jordanes are accurate instead of the cut and paste propaganda of
a
> third rate political and religious hack who tried to deceive
readers
> into accepting it as the condensed work of a lost Roman historian.
> Jordanes may be a source but he ranks somewhat below Goering and
has the
> same glorious interpretation of Germanic history as the Nazis had.
If I
> were to discover that you had facist inclinations it would not
surprise
> me in the least. In your favor of course is your language skills,
they
> appear admirable! Please enjoy your past time by yourself...
>
> Goodbye,
>
> Frederick Louis Scoggins

I'm not sure I must reply on this (since the author seemingly wanted 
just to slam the door behind himself and will hardly see my 
response), still thoughts that arise from reading this letter are 
something which may be of relevance for all of us.

1. To start with, it's a pity that Frederick Louis Scoggins has left 
the group. Given the level of activity these days every new member 
is a plus for us and every lost member is a minus. Even a dilettante 
(sorry for this word, we all were it once) can make important 
contributions to the Gothic-L, if (s)he is but a bit serious about 
his/her Gothic interest.

2. If memory serves I did never state "that the entire writings of 
Jordanes are accurate". Regarding the fragment in question I rather 
pointed out that "it [the speech] was never spoken in the form which 
is delivered to us by Jordanes. Perhaps, there was no speech at all 
[...] Whatever it was, let us FANCY [emphasizing now] that Attila 
did really speak a speech and that he spoke exactly what is written 
in Getica" (http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ gothic-
l/message/9850) . Neither do I think that Getica is a piece of "cut 
and paste propaganda of a third rate political and religious hack 
who tried to deceive readers into accepting it as the condensed work 
of a lost Roman historian" (quoting Mr. Scoggins here). It was 
rather a typical early-medieval history work which mixed myth, 
legend and reality into one peculiar construction. And in doing so 
Jordanes was certainly not alone. Scholars have long learned to deal 
with this kind of documents distinguishing historical truth and 
mythologically resp. politically motivated issues. Mr. Scoggins 
should be advised to read some of the newest scientific literature 
on the subject.

3. Regarding my alleged "fascist inclinations" (I can't help 
laughing now). I am sure if you knew me but a little more and off-
list you would be laughing too. But seriously, if I were to take an 
offence from this and had to "fight back", I would remember that 
linking Germanic peoples with Sumerians (as well as with Atlanteans 
etc) is certainly one of Nazi and neo-Nazi idees fixes. I could 
remind you of an Austrian author (yimmakh shmo wezikro) who wrote 
several "historical" books where you can find it (e.g. he connects 
Sumerian epic hero Gilgamesh (earlier form Bilge-mies) with ON 
Bergelmir and deduces from this that Sumerians were a blond blue-
eyed Aryan people of pure Nordic descend – sic!) along with his 
apologia for the Third Reich and the Holocaust denial. If this is 
not a pseudo-science, then what is?

Calling someone a fascist (a Nazi) is a serious offence in some 
corners of the world. I must admit I was unwise enough to pronouce 
similar accusations in the past on this list (and that with much 
more reasons, believe me), something which I later regretted. Let's 
not repeat the mistake. Unfortunately there are more than enough 
Nazis on the Internet who overtly demonstrate and propagate their 
ideas and activities. Go there and fight them if you please. We 
certainly don't need them on this list, but neither would we be 
happy with paranoidal Nazi-hunting, I suppose. Equating Jordanes 
with Goering is something I just can't take serious. Maybe you mean 
Jordanes was a fat guy too ;-)?

4. Thanks for the compliment to my language skills. I don't actually 
think they are so admirable, though. And, of course, I enjoy the 
flavor of the ancient languages, something which I hope I share with 
a number of people here. "Enjoying the past time" isn't that bad 
after all, is it?

5. Finally, when making my translation and submitting it to this 
list I looked for and awaited your professional comments. I still 
await them. Do members of the Gothic-L have not a bit of interest in 
the Gothic language anymore? Are the only things we are still able 
to produce political reasonings and personal quarrels around non-
existing problems like the one above? I beg you, my friends, let us 
turn to Gothic matters. We had some brilliant discussions in the 
past. Of course opinions may diverge (and that's good), still if 
your opponent disagrees with you it's not a reason to label 
him "Nazi", "Hun supporter", "Extra-terrestrial invader" etc 
nonsense. Let's be kind to each other.

Gawairþi allaim

Ualarauans
 Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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