Principles of reconstruction.

[madhukar_vichare]

Let me introduce myself: I'm Indian and live in Thane, Maharashtra,
India. My name is Madhukar Vichare. I'm member of this
gothic-l at yahoogroups.com <mailto:gothic-l at yahoogroups.com> ; I had been
going through the postings by Ingemer, Luke, Mike Erwin, Vladimir, T.A.
Rudich, Larry Swain, Andrew Rabin, Ualarauans, Francisc, Dr. Orient
Rohmer, Lama Nom, Walawulf, Sir Rugtur, LN, and perhaps many more.



I observed that many words under scrutiny appear to be derived from
Sanskrit, the language of Vedas conceptualized by Aryan Sages as they
traveled from place to place looking for settling permanently. Gothic
roots are in Norse, Swedish, Danish, German. Gothic mythology says their
ancestors lived on an island Skanz, which was covered with Ice.
"Skand" is Sanskrit word meaning learned man, going from place
to place (in search of knowledge out of curiosity). The very word is
under scrutiny in your discussions. `Scand'inavian countries
have `Scand, Norse myths have Aryan stories, and so the Danish
myths. Aryan early settlers moved through these landscapes as early as
10,000 years BCE. Tuatan Mythology is replete with Sanskrit words and
the common thread runs through the basic concepts. Languages like
English, German, Spanish, Greek have Sanskrit words.



I have high lighted in the topics under discussion and have made my
comments; you may find my observations worth taking notice of.



I will like to be in touch if you wish.



Madhukar Vichare.



I am so glad I found this site. I am in the process of writing a
historical novel set during the reign of Constantina I. My goal is to
make it as historically accurate as possible. In line with that, I know
that the Goths had Reiks, which I think were similar to tribal chiefs. I
know that when the Goths went to war the war-chiefs carried the title of
Draughtin. My question is, did Draughtin replace Reik as the title or
was it added to the title? In example: Would Reik Larry become Draughtin
Larry when they went to war, or would he become Draughtin-Reik Larry,
(like Governor-General) at war.
Is there anyone reading these who can help?

  To add to Ingemer's notes: Reiks is the nominative singular; the final
`s' is extremely common
for Gothic masculine nouns. Reik is the accusative singular. There's a
lot of speculation about Gothic political vocabulary. Wulfila offers a
glimpse of this, but he's one author, with one
subject, and we don't have the rest. Reiks may be a catch-all, so that
anyone with political power,
whether commander, chieftain or king, would be a reiks. *Drauhtins is an
unattested speculative form, based on drauhtinon, gadrauhts, etc. A
householder might be an andbahts. A subordinate commander might be a
[unit size]-faþs, e.g. þiusundifaþs, hundafaþs, etc.
possibly
*hansafaþs as well, or even *aihvafaþs and *fotufaþs.

I am not a linguist but as far as I know they were reiks also when
leading a war expedition. Their sacral king, however, was never allowed
to leave his own territory when the people was permanently settled, but
had to order a reiks to take command. During the wandering, according to
Getica at least, the þiuðans was sacral king and he used 'kings of
the army' to lead parts of the united army (like e.g. Cniva as Wolfram
suggests) but I do not know their title in Gothic. Later, after the
split between Greutungi/Ostrogoths and Vesi/Tervingi the Ostrogothic
king seems to have behaved like anodinistic king while the Vesi had a
kindins, family-leader or clan-chief, executing the functions of a
sacral king. The Ostrogothic king accordingly seems to have been a reiks
continously and from Alaric also the Visgothic king was a reiks, but
within Gutþiuða the tribal chiefs were reiks/kunigaz and so was
the kindins (for his own tribe only). Draughtin, Sw. drott, normally is
the second in command to the king, he is an earl/jarl, but drott may as
well be used to
mean a king, a ruler. I never, however, saw this title in connection
with an Eastgermanic people. Accordingly I dare not say if it ever was
used with the Goths. The classical authors use dux when describing the
leaders just below the king.

In the Gothic Bible, 'þiudans' is used of a king who goes to war:

aiþþau hvas þiudans gaggands stigqan wiþra anþarana
þiudan (vipra prāṇa-yukta piṇḍa) du wiganna, niu
gasitands faurþis þankeiþ, siaiu mahteigs miþ taihun
þusundjom gamotjan þamma miþ twaim tigum þusundjo gaggandin
ana sik?

Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down
first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him
that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Luke 14:31.



'frauja' (Prāṇāḥ) "lord" is also used with no Greek model
for the noun in a military context (II Tim 2:4). I'm not sure whether
'reiks' is used anywhere in an explicitly military context.



I am not a linguist but as far as I know they were reiks also when
leading a war expedition. Their sacral king, however, was never allowed
to leave his own territory when the people was permanently settled, but
had to order a reiks (Ṛṣīs –wandering Sages) to take
command. During the wandering, according to Getica at least, the
þiuðans was sacral king and he used 'kings of the army' to lead
parts of the united army (like e.g. Cniva as Wolfram suggests) but I do
not know their title in Gothic. Later, after the split between
Greutungi/Ostrogoth s and Vesi/Tervingi the Ostrogothic king seems to
have behaved like an odinistic king while the Vesi had a kindins,
family-leader or
clan-chief, executing the functions of a sacral king.The Ostrogothic
king accordingly seems to have been a reiks continously and from Alaric
also the Visgothic king was a reiks, but within Gutþiuða the
tribal chiefs were reiks/kunigaz and so was the kindins (for his own
tribe only). Draughtin, Sw. drott, normally is the second in command to
the king, he is an earl/jarl, but drott may as well be used to mean a
king, a ruler. I never, however, saw this title in connection with an
Eastgermanic people. Accordingly I dare not say if it ever was used with
the Goths. The classical authors use dux when describing the leaders
just below the king.

I am so glad I found this site. I am in the process of writing a
historical novel set during the reign of Constantina I. My goal is to
make it as historically accurate as possible. In line with that, I know
that the Goths had Reiks (Sanskrit-riktha – that comes as
inheritance; in war they are inexperienced), which I think were similar
to tribal chiefs. I know that when the Goths went to war the war-chiefs
carried the title of Draughtin (Sanskrit- daishik- local leader or
adviser). My question is, did Draughtin replace Reik as the title or was
it added to the title? In example: Would Reik Larry become Draughtin
Larry when they went to war, or would he become Draughtin-Reik Larry,
(like Governor-General) at war.



Ek hlewagastir holtijar horna tawido written in the old futhark
(Pruthak- pruthak Atman-different, dissimilar), is more than just a
name, a magical inscription or a few words, almost a sentence in my
opinion ;-) Best. I wrote "short inscriptions" , not "general texts". As
I know, the old Futhark was used in general (not only by the Goths, but
also by other Germanic peoples) only for such short inscriptions (1 or
several words) on different items.

You are quite right. The old Futhark has only names and magical words.
The full futhark is found in Stånga, Gotland as part of a grave end
4th century. The only other word on this stone is SUEUS which is an
palindrom.



The runic (Puranic) inscriptiones on gothic weapeones, necklesses and
gravestones only proofs that the Goth tribes new the Runes as magickal
"alphabet" but not that they have used it for writing general texts.
Usually Runes were taboo for such uses, or does someone know of the
existence of texts, written only in runic symbols?




The anthropological analysis allows us to speak on belonging of
Chernyakhov culture's population to the great Caucasoid race and its
significant heterogeneity. The represented anthropological types belong
to both the northern and southern circles of the Caucasoid. The
population in each region had a complicated anthropological structure,
with diverse genetic lines fixed. Some of the lines were associated with
the aborigine population, others - with migrants from the central
and northeast areas of Europe. Despite the mentioned heterogeneity, it
is possible to select, for each region, dominating morphological types
that show different directions of the anthropological links.

The Chernyakhov population of the west Ukraine exposes significant
nearness to population of the Maslomench group of the Wielbark culture
in Poland. This applies to both men and women though they have a
different dominating base. The male type (dolichocranic and hypermorphic
with small faces) may originate from the Celtic environment. The sources
for the female type (mesocranial with medium wide faces) are difficult
to reveal, but it is relevant, in the historic perspective, to medieval
west Slavonic groups.



I think he just took the word already existent and changed its meaning.
Adding the suffix –sl was not his way of forming new words afaik. It
is generally believed that skoh-sl is derived from PIE
*(s)kek- "to jump", "to move quickly (= to run)", {Sanskrit –
skandaha means a jump, it also means some disease of children, skandanam
means going away}, "to shiver" (#922 in Pokorny). G. Köbler offers
the same etymology. Cf. also OSlav. skakati "to jump". Looks like Go.
skohsl could originally pertain to persons suffering from a certain
mental desease, very reminiscent of Old Irish geilt {Sanskrit close
words are girikaha, a hill, gir – language, girvaani – Sanskrit
language; ancient sages preferred to meditate in the wood}and related
mythological motifs of "The Wild Man in the Wood". No wonder Wulfila
picked up this term to refer to those possessed by the devils (Mt. 8:31)
and *running* from the tombs (us hlaiwasnom rinnandans). In the semantic
field, this word came down into Old Norse as 'skógi', or 'forest'.
Very implausible. Theoretically, it could be vice versa. *Skôgaz
*skôh-sla, that is. "Wood thing" > "wood dweller" = "one banished
from the community and living in the periphery", "outlaw". Cf. ON vargr
=  heiðingi < *heið-gengi, "heath-walker" , i.e. "one who dwells
in the wasteland". (The meanings do chage).

Perhaps it was thought that 'things', spirits and so forth, living in
the forest were to be avoided, not sure. Forest was thought of as a
dangerous place to go, no doubt.                                  
Ualarauans

In gothic-l at yahoogroup s.com
<http://in.mc946.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com\
> , "llama_nom" <600cell at ... > wrote: and various Slavic names for
spirits with the element -kus-, -kuz-, -kud-, as well as the Slavic verb
'skakati' "to jump".
Interestingly, Slav. kusiti "to bite" comes from Go. kausjan "to test".
Walawulf!

I can't see what direct etymological connection there could be between
O.N. 'skyrsi' and Go. 'skohsl'. If there is any kinship, perhaps it's
just shared sound symbolism [
http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Sound_symbolism
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_symbolism>  ]. Grimm also mentions
O.N. 'skass' = 'skars' "witch, troll". And compare O.E. 'sceocca',
'scucca' "devil, monster" (Modern English 'shuck'), and derivatives of
O.E. 'scín-' with connotations of magic, illusion, phantoms.


But maybe such names for frightening beings were liable to unusual
changes if people had a superstitious fear of using what they felt was
the thing's true name in case that attracted its attention; euphemistic
names were certainly used of dangerous animals such as wolves.
Diefenbach mentions Swedish wood spirits called 'skogsnerte' and
'skogsnufva' , and various Slavic names for spirits with the element
-kus-, -kuz-, -kud-, as well as the Slavic verb 'skakati' "to jump".
(Skanda – Scandinavia).



In gothic-l at yahoogroup s.com
<http://in.mc946.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com\
> , Valulfr_Vaerulsson@ ... wrote: Hails Ualarauans, Thanks for clearing
that up, I think I picked up the association from Grimm. After looking
into this further I found this from the Cleasby-Vigfusson O.Ice.
dictionary - SKYRSI, n. [akin to Ulf. skohsl; Germ. scheusal] :-- a
portent, phantasm, as also mischance arising from witchery; þeir
þóttusk náliga brenna ok óttuðusk þann atburð sem
skussi (= skyrsi), as a bad omen,.....            Walawulfs.

Quoting ualarauans <ualarauans@ ... In gothic-l at yahoogroup s.com
<http://in.mc946.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com\
> , "Valulfr Vaerulsson"
<Valulfr_Vaerulsson @> wrote: I have a question about the etymology of
the word 'skohsl', is this a word Ulfilas made up to denote 'a demon',
and if not, where does it derive? I think he just took the word already
existent and changed its meaning. Adding the suffix –sl was not his
way of forming new words afaik. It is generally believed that skoh-sl is
derived from PIE *(s)kek- "to jump", "to move quickly (= to run)", "to
shiver" (#922 in Pokorny). G. Köbler offers the same etymology. Cf.
also O. Slav. skakati "to jump". Looks like Go. skohsl could originally
pertain to persons suffering from a certain mental desease, very
reminiscent of OIrish geilt and related mythological motifs of "The Wild
Man in the Wood". No wonder Wulfila picked up this term to refer to
those possessed by the devils (Mt. 8:31) and *running* from the tombs
(us hlaiwasnom rinnandans). In the semantic field, this word came down
into Old Norse as 'skógi', or 'forest'. Very implausible.
Theoretically, it could be vice versa. *Skôgaz *skôh-sla, that is.
"Wood thing" "wood dweller" = "one banished from the community and
living in the periphery", "outlaw". Cf. ON vargr =  heiðingi
*heið-gengi, "heath-walker" , i.e. "one who dwells in the wasteland".

Is there any way we would reconstruct the term "knight" or is that just
too chronologically irresponsible?

Hail Rutgur and Ingemar,

There is also the 'drauhtin' (Sanskrit – drudha means rigid, steady,
steadfast, dhrudhavedhin sharp bowman) or 'war-lord'. I'm not sure what
exactly the function was on the battle field, but I do that the word
came down into Old Norse as 'drótt' meaning the 'warrior-band' , and
'dróttinn' (Sanskrit – drushtin means expert, meditating) as
war-lord, and eventually as 'Lord' or 'God' in a Christian sense.
Walawulf

Quoting Ingemar Nordgren <ingemar at nordgren. se
<http://in.mc946.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ingemar%40nordgren.se> >:
In gothic-l at yahoogroup s.com
<http://in.mc946.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gothic-l%40yahoogroups.com\
> , "Sir Rutgur" <rutgur at ...> wrote:

Did the Goths have particular word their Warrior Class? .for the
Leadership for their Warrior Class? I'm wondering if they had a
functionally equivalent word for "knight", at least as it relates to
warfare & the army.


Hi Rutgur, An employed fighter/warrior (cf. German 'Knecht', Sw.
'knekt') is called 'skalks'. (Sanskrit – skhalit suggests angry,
attack, also guerrilla warfare). This, however, is in a household and if
it has a bearing for army titles I do not know.               Ingemar

The West Germanic forms point to Proto-Germanic *knehtaz, which would
give Gothic *knaíhts. Icelandic uses a different word, 'riddari', a
loan from North German (cognate with Modern High German 'Ritter'
"knight", literally "rider"). The word is said to have been introduced
into Norway as a title in 1277, but Einarr Skúlason's poem Geisli
from the middle of the 12th century contains a related loanword,
'ríðari' "knight" (cognate with English 'rider' and Modern High
German 'Reiter' "rider"). This could be back-engineered into Gothic as
*reidareis. I haven't read all of this discussion, so appologies if I'm
repeating what's already been suggested, but a more ancient alternative
with similar connotations of warrior-hood and service is Proto-Germanic
*þegnaz (with cognates attested in Old Norse, Old English, Old Saxon
and Old High German alliterative poetry), whence English 'thane'. This
would give Gothic 'þigns'.   Lama Nom

So, where does Knight and Knecht come from? Can you trace those sources
and backwords construct it using Proto-Germanic and predicting > what
the change would have been, if the Goths followed the same etymological
patterns.... etc.? Does Icelandic use a "knight" cognate or another
word/compound word altogether? Granted, there's no way of assuming that
had the Goths survived to establish feudalism; they would have used a
word that remotely related to "Knight," but hypothetically speaking...
After all, it really depends on how much the person asking really wants
to honour chronology. If it were up to me Gothic would be reconstructed
in its entirety and there'd be neologisms for SUVs and iPods.

It didn't "come down", strictly spoken. It was inherited both by ON and
Gothic from PGrm. The Gothic form (*drauhtins, that is) is not attested.
Ualarauans

Skalks is actually a slave (most often = Gr. DOULOS, also OIKETHS
"domestic servant", PAIDARION "slave child"). (Sanskrit "skanna
means one who is outcast, because he does not follow the norms of the
society). Cf. also ga-skalki SUNDOULOS "Mitknecht" – it's neuter on
–ja, looks more like a word for a thing, not for a living person. I
don't think a Gothic warrior would be happy with these names for himself
:) Still, you may use it if you mentally place your Goths into the High
Middle Age, with its knights, heralds, noble ladies etc. Unfortunately,
the historical Goths didn't live so long to develop a feudal terminology
of their own. Words of their language pertain to realities of a
different time. It's "master and slave", not "suzerain and vassal" which
dominated the social landscape in the classic society and which is
reflected in the language of the Gothic Bible. Some other Old Germanic
translations, less dependent on the original text, were making use of
the Germanic social terminology. That's why you can occasionally find
Jesus depicted as a Germanic warlord and the disciples as his
"optimates" (guardsmen), e.g. OHG druhtin and the gana in Otfrid von
Weissenburg' s Evangelienbuch. In Gothic, these were *drauhtins and
gadrauhts (pl. gadrauhteis) respectively. For the latter, you can also
opt for reconstructed poeticisms (based on
ON): *drauhtimagus, *drauhtiguma and the like. *drauhtifaþs(Gen.
-fadis) for *drauhtins seems also possible.


In a few written sources of the Migration period the Latinized word
sculca (Gr. SKOULKA) is used for some kind of military service. It might
be cognate to skalks, although there's a Latin etymology (from
exculcare).

An employed fighter/warrior (cf. German 'Knecht', Sw. 'knekt') is called
'skalks'. This, however, is in a household and if it has a bearing for
army titles I do not know.

Did the Goths have particular word their Warrior Class? .for the
Leadership for their Warrior Class? I'm wondering if they had a
functionally equivalent word for "knight", at least as it relates to
warfare & the army. I suppose western Goths - in Spain, Aquitaine or
Italy - going into the High Middle Ages might use the terms
interchangeably - but eastern Goths - in the Balkans and especially in
Ukraine - would need to distinguish between light cavalry, heavy
cavalry, and the nobility.

Fourth-century Goths probably wouldn't associate mounted fighting with
much greater status than dismounted fighting. Sixth-century Goths would;
Gothic heavy cavalry appears to have expanded its importance in the
fifth century just as Roman heavy cavalry did. I'd suggest either
*kaballareis or *katafraktareis for the heavy cavalry in the sixth
century. (karbara or karbura, means wild man, and karmanyabhuj means a
person hired for work. These are nearest equivalents).

On Feb 6, 2008, at 2:27 PM, llama_nom wrote: Another possibility would
be to invent a Gothic *aihva-raida- manna (In Sanskrit reta means
bastard child and raita means child having qualities of demon) to match
Old English 'éoredmann'. I'm thinking of Tom Shippey's comments
in The Road to Middle Earth about the survival in Old English of this
old word 'éored' for cavalry in spite of the lack of such a fighting
force among the Anglo-Saxons, perhaps harking back to traditions of
cavalry warfare as practiced by the Goths. But that's a bit of a
mouthful... I think my favourite so far is *kaballareis, for the reasons
Ualarauan's has suggested. It seems very credible alongside the other
Latin military vocabulary. We could still used *reidands "rider" as
synonym for knight where the context makes it clear.
LN

Okay, I'm very excited about trying this out, but bear in mind I have
NEVER reconstructed before and will likely embarrass myself. Could you
give me a word to reconstruct using those sources [and
Bennett's text] and I will do my best...you would be able to critique my
attempt and provide feedback I would certainly not be able to get
outside of this group. Just tell me a simple word in English and I will
attempt to reconstruct it--preferably a word I will be able to find in
Old Norse/Old English, etc.


That was an awesome answer Lama, I actually have an obnoxious question
the likes of which you would expect from an amateur Gothic enthusiast
who's only had one 4000 level course in linguistics: How can I learn to
do that? I want to be able to derive my own reconstructions from
Proto-Germanic and back engineer my own words. If I could do that, I
would post list after list of neologisms for scholarly criticisms until
we had a veritable dictionary of Gothic words and phrases. Granted, this
may be coming out of young-blood fervor but I am certainly interested in
the back-engineering. Are there any pre-established guides and resources
to these Gothic patterns, and which Proto-Germanic source are you using
and where can I get one?

Are we all using the same source for Proto-Germanic or is this in and of
itself a highly debated issue of favouring this or that resource? There
are plenty of uncertainties in Proto-Germanic vocabulary! Generally
speaking, the sound change rules are regular, but language being a human
thing, quirks creeps in. For example, a word which is attested in more
than one branch of Germanic may follow different declensions in the
different dialects, so you could reconstruct the same Proto-Germanic
root from each, but different endings. There's a lot of that sort of
thing. Even if we knew everything about the history of the language, we
probably still wouldn't be able to point to a single community of
Proto-Germanic speakers speaking a perfectly uniform language; it's a
scholarly idealisation. To reconstruct a Proto-Germanic word from a
Gothic one, or the other way around, you need to know all the relevant
sound changes that might affect the sounds in the word between Gothic
and PG.

If you have a word in say Old Norse and you want to reconstruct a Gothic
cognate, you need to know all the relevant sound changes that would have
affected the sounds in the word in its evolution from PG to ON, as well
as the Gothic sound changes. For this, a good starting point in English
is Gordon's Introduction to Old Norse. In German, there's Adolf Noreen's
Altisländische und altnorwegische Grammatik.

**Very often, distinctions of sounds in PG have been lost in later
Germanic languages, so it's not always clear how to reconstruct a word
that's only recorded in one or two dialects. For example, /e/ in Old
English sometimes comes from PG /e/, sometimes /i/, sometimes /a/. Which
it was in PG depends on what vowel came in the following syllable; but
often this vowel will have been lost or reduced in Old English, in which
case you need to find cognates in other Germanic languages to
triangulate by. Likewise /o:/ in Old Norse might be from PG /o:/
(fór) or /ah/ (nótt) or /unh/ (þótti), etc. So again, you can
only tell which if the same word is recorded in a dialect that did keep
the distinction that Old Norse lost. Sometimes the Proto-Germanic form,
supposing the word really is from PG, is clear from just one dialect;
sometimes you need two or more to calibrate, using each to make up for
the deficiencies of the others. Sometimes you even need to look further
a field at cognates in other Indo-European languages.



It can also help to know a bit about the grammar of the various early
Germanic languages. Sometimes it's possible to deduce what inflectional
vowels would have probably been in PG from the way a word is declined in
one of the later languages, even if the vowel itself has been lost; e.g.
you can tell from the way Old Norse 'staðr' "place" (cognate with
Modern Endlish 'stead') is declined that (barring quirks) it would have
come from PG *stadiz rather than *stadaz or something else. Luckily with
this one, there are cognates elsewhere in Germanic which confirm this.

For example, a word which is attested in more than one branch of
Germanic may follow different
declensions in the different dialects, so you could reconstruct the same
Proto-Germanic root from each, but different endings. There's a lot of
that sort of thing. Even if we knew everything about the
history of the language, we probably still wouldn't be able to point to
a single community of Proto-Germanic speakers speaking a perfectly
uniform language; it's a scholarly idealisation. To reconstruct a
Proto-Germanic word from a Gothic one, or the other way around, you need
to know all the relevant sound changes that might affect the sounds in
the word between Gothic and PG.

Hypothetical loan could refer to some particular kind of cavalry, e.g.
auxiliary Alans. The problem is we don't know the Alanic or Hunnish word
either. Modern Ossetic has baræg for "horseman", but I don't know if
it's not a later loan from some North Caucasian idiom. Somehow it
doesn't look like inherited Iranian. Never trust your eyes! I was just
told by people competent in this stuff that Oss. baræg IS inherited.
Namely it comes from *bâraka-, common to all Northeast Iranian
dialects. In the Migration period Alanic it was probably already
*bâraga. The latter could be borrowed into Gothic as *baraga M.-an.
Hypothetical semantics (that's absolutely arbitrary): "(Alanic) mounted
warrior".           Ualarauans

I must remark that knight is not the word used in North Germanic. Except
of Iceland also all the other Scandinavian countries use the word
'riddare'(Sw.) and closely related words. Hence Gothic would rather be
supposed to have used reidareis or similar to mark a feudal knight since
Gothic lies very close to Swedish in its construction. Concerning North
Germanic the word *þegnaz is quite okay. On Swedish and Danish
runestones we have þegn/thegn and a simpler state dræng. Thegn is
OE thane, knight, and dræng is rather a warrior in royal service and
could be related to drauthin in a way even if the top title, head of the
royal guard and second in command as well was 'drott'. Later 'drott'
becomes cognate with prince/furste and king.

Its "real world" cognates are not attested outside West Germanic. That
is, not only in Gothic is it unknown, which fact could be explained by
scarcity of the delivered vocabulary, but also in North
> Germanic. This makes me think that the formation (kneht) was dialectal
and perhaps relatively late as well and thus impossible to exist in
Gothic even theoretically. 2. The basic meaning preserved in the
continental languages is "servant" rather than "knight". Yes, the
semantic development from "servant" to "(noble) warrior" was not unique
with this word, cf. OGrm. *þegnaz. But then, why not take attested
magus, for instance, and specialize it? Or to use a composite
*drauhti-magus (ON dróttmögr) – cf. attested þiu-magus
"slave"? 3. Subjectively, I wouldn't like reconstructed Gothic to be too
much close to Modern English or any other modern language, without
sufficient reasons as it seems to be here.


My first preference would be knaíhts because of the Germanic
connotation verses a Romantic interference, though I am aware of the
Gothic exposure to Romance languages via Spain, etc. Yes, amongst Gothic
warfare terms we already have militon "to do a military service" < Lat.
militare, and annons "soldier's salary" Lat. annonae. These both are
absent in other branches of Germanic.
And they illustrate the contacts with the Roman military organization,
long before the Goths arrived in Spain etc. The words were there already
in the 4th ct., with Visigoths residing north of the Danube. I don't
know since when caballarius started to refer to "heavy-armored horseman"
in Vulgar Latin, and where this happened first. The Visigoths could have
taken it from lingua militaris of their Roman allies, themselves being
formally a part of the Roman army. And, curiously as it may seem, Isidor
of Sevilla (570-638) used caballarius in the meaning "stableman", if I
don't mistake, and he was a Visigoth.

Kaballarja in the deed is a toponym. *Kaballareis could be a "knight"
quite well. Would not knight [horseman] have possibly found its way to a
noble connotation in Gothic culture theoretically? Did it finds its way
there in any culture other than Anglo-Saxon? Kneht – not outside
English, for all I know. "Horseman" > "knight" –  practically
everywhere in West Europe.

Some thoughts on Gothic knights. In most European languages (all except
English afaik) "knight"
is "horseman", literally. Although the Goths didn't have knights in the
proper sense of the word, they did have cavalry. The OstroGoths
(Sanskrit – those who used advanced weapons – "Astra")
are said to borrow the practice of the mounted warrior-ship from their
Hunnish and Alanic neighbors. They must have had a word for a horseman,
right? Of course, they could have borrowed the item together with the
word for it. Not that they had never seen a man riding on horseback
before they contacted East European nomads. The hypothetical loan could
refer to some particular kind of cavalry, e.g. auxiliary Alans. The
problem is we don't know the Alanic or Hunnish word either. Modern
Ossetic has baræg for "horseman", but I don't know if it's not a
later loan from some North Caucasian idiom. Somehow it doesn't look like
inherited Iranian. I'd expect
something with Ir. aspa- (Oss. jæfs-) as the first element. Maybe the
Goths would substitute it with their IE cognate aihva- aiva or iva, who
knows. To construct the word from the Germanic vocabulary, I can think
of substantivized *reidands (declined like frijonds). *Reidareis
suggested by Llama seems OK, too, only I haven't seen -areis added to a
strong verb. Which doesn't mean this was absolutely impossible.

I definitely see the need for the semantic difference, but is there a
reason I should prefer kaballareis over knaíhts? My first preference
would be knaíhts because of the Germanic connotation verses a
Romantic interference, though I am aware of the Gothic exposure to
Romance languages via Spain, etc. Would not knight [horseman] have
possibly found its way to a noble connotation in Gothic culture
theoretically? Did it finds its way there in any culture other than
Anglo-Saxon?

Finally, there's an option of "going Romance" and constructing
*kaballareis M.-ja, after French chevalier, Castilian caballero, Italian
cavaliere etc. We have Kaballarja attested (in Arezzo deed).
Personally I like it best. Neo-Gothic lexicographs can load it with all
that feudal semantics we associate with knights. And there will be a
diffenece between "knight" (kaballareis) and "horseman"
(reidands) to be made.                                                 
Ualarauans






--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, Justïn <justinelf at ...> wrote:
>
> Is number 2. not triu?  I stumbled across it in the Wright link
> actually, but I may be mistaken.  Would 6. be aul?  This is really
> embarrassing...I'm working on the rest, at work right now so far away
> from my Bennett text...
>
> Again, this is my first attempt, so as embarrassing as it is
> hopefully I'll learn...
>
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" 600cell@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > Clue for Number 6: see Wright § 151.
> >
> > http://lexicon.ff.cuni.cz/png/goth_wright/b0071.png
> > http://lexicon.ff.cuni.cz/png/goth_wright/b0072.png
> >
> > Clue for Number 4: compare the Modern English verb 'to lay' and
> cognates.
> >
> > > 1. bath
> > > 2. wood
> > > 3. dwarf
> > > 4. edge
> > > 5. elbow
> > > 6. owl
> >
>



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