Haila Maria - translation attempt

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Edmund" <edmundfairfax at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> Dear Dirk,
> 
> Just a few things:
> 
> 1) I see that you took "anstai audahafta" from Luke 1,28, where it translates Greek 'kekharitomene', literally, 'the one who has been shown grace'. The Latin version, of course, has 'gratia plena', which, if one were to translate closely, would be 'anstais fulla'. Certainly, this is idiomatic: cf. "Iesus ahmins weihis fulls" (Luke 4,1), "Jesus, filled with the Holy Spirit"; also "fullai waurthun agisis" (Luke 5,26) "were filled with awe" or "were full of awe".


Hi Edmund,

thanks a lot for your valuable comments.

I also considered "anstais fulla", but then found 
"anstai audahafta"  in "Deutsch-Gotisches Wörterbuch", by Oskar Priese, 1933. I lifted the whole expression from there.

Also I translated not from Latin, but from modern German, which may also explain some of my choices.









> 
> 2) In agreement with the Greek Vorlage, Gothic allows the dropping of the verb 'to be' in the present indicative, so "frauja mith thus ist" could also be "frauja mith thus" with the verb implied. Indeed, the passage from Luke 1, 28 in fact gives the latter. The same would apply to the two following clauses.
> 


Understood. I somehow like to approximate it as closely as possible to my native tongue, which is a doubtful preference, but it helps me to better understand and remember Gothic.





> 3) "athei Gudis" contains a typo. It should of course be "aithei". Likewise "bidai" should be "bidei" ('bidjan' is an irregular class V strong verb that acts like a weak class II verb in the present). Given that a present subjunctive form can be used in commands instead of the imperative, presumably to soften the force of the command, 'bidjais' would also be possible here.



I didn't even look this up, but always seemed to have erroneously believed that the word is "athei", but you are correct of course. I like your suggestion to use "bidjais".




> 
> 4) Given the Latin "in hora mortis nostrae", with its singular "hora", 'in hveilai' is perhaps preferable to 'in hveile'.
> 


Again, too close to German "weile" I suppose.





> 5) interesting is the use of the weak adjective ending in "thiuthido" at Luke 1,28, rather than "thiuthida" (strong), which you have followed. As far as I can see, Braune/Heidermanns does not discuss this passage, and the use of the weak form here is not accounted for by the "rules" outlined in the aforesaid work. Do you have any idea why the weak ending is used here?


No, just my guess. If I am correct here, then it is by accident not design. Do you agree with the form "ga-thiuthido" or should it be "thiuthido". Again, from German I would expect "ga-thiuthido".

Best
Dirk


PS I'm very impressed by your knowledge. I suppose you have studied Germanistics or German linguistics?










> 
> Edmund
> 
> 
> 
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <d.faltin@> wrote:
> >
> > I made a quick translation of the Ave Maria into Gothic. Probably full of mistakes, but here we go:
> > 
> > "Haila Maria, anstai audahafta,
> > frauja mith thus ist, gathiuthido thu in qinom is,
> > gathiutido ist akran qithaus theinis, Iesus.
> > 
> > Weiha Maria, athei Gudis,
> > bidai bi uns frawaurhtans,
> > nu, jah in hveile dauthaus unsaris. Amen"
> > 
> > 
> > Any good?
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > Dirk
> >
>


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