Summary: whales and dolphins vs. pigs and lambs

[Martin Huld]

If you are seeking a way to connect 'dolphin and swine, have you thought of the possibility that both are derived from a third and distinct meaning?  I am referring specifically to the Greek set δελφίς ‘dolphin’, δέλφαξ ‘young pig, porker’ according to Liddell & Scott, ‘cochon de lait’ in Boisacq, but ‘Sau, Mutterschwein’ according to Frisk, and δελφύς ‘womb’.  The last, of course, is related to Av. gərəbuš ‘womb’ from a PIE *gwelbh-.  The porcine connexion with ‘womb’ is obvious; the farrow is recently emergent from the womb and the sow is a potent symbol of fertility in earlier cultures.  Though some suggest that the sleek curvature of the dolphin resembles a belly, I suspect that it is merely the ‘fish with a womb’ because though perfectly adapted to a marine environment, the dolphin is after all a mammal.  Is it possible that the Japanese and Ryukyuan both derive from a lost Proto-Japanese ‘womb’?  In which case, taboo may explain why the meaning ‘womb’ has been lost.

MEH

-----Original Message-----
>From: Alexander Vovin <sashavovin at gmail.com>
>Sent: Apr 28, 2008 1:56 AM
>To: histling-l at mailman.rice.edu
>Cc: Bjarke Frellesvig <bjarke.frellesvig at hertford.ox.ac.uk>
>Subject: [Histling-l] Summary: whales and dolphins vs. pigs and lambs
>
>Dear all,
>
>       Many thanks for everyone who responded to my query about
>pigs/lambs vs. whales/dolphins (in chronological order): Peter Hook,
>Chris Cleirigh, Roger Lass, John Charles Smith, Shigeru Tsuchida,
>Paolo Ramat, Ivan Iguartua, Christian Kay, Frank Seifert, Mair Parry,
>and Vit Bubenik.
>      If I may offer a summary,  It looks like that whales, dolphins,
>dugongs, porpoises etc. can be named 'pig of the sea', 'water pig,
>'pig fish'. 'sea-ox' and sea animal' also do occur, although much more
>rare. However, it seems that there are no direct semantic shifts like
>'pig'  > 'dolphin', or what is even more important to me 'lamb'  >
>'dolphin.'
>       For those, who might be interested, the original query was
>triggered by the following problem: after my recent talk at the Kyoto
>University, where I suggested that Proto-Ryukyuan *peto 'dolphin'
>(with seemingly no apparent attestations on the Japanese side of the
>Japonic family and as far as I am aware without any possible external
>parallels in surrounding language families) should be probably treated
>as Proto-Japonic word for 'dolphin' since Old Japanese (OJ) (etc.)
>iruka 'dolphin' is rather transparent loan from Ainu, my friend Bjarke
>Frellesvig suggested the possibility that *peto might be connected to
>OJ pi1tuzi 'lamb' (Modern Japanese hitsuji). Phonetically and
>morphologically it is plausible, because Proto-Japonic *e and *o
>raised to OJ i and u respectively in most cases, and because there are
>dialect data (Yaeyama phitsI, pitsi 'lamb') indicating that -zi is a
>suffix. However, semantics seemed somewhat suspicious (although 'pig
>of the sea' lurked in my mind), and this basically was confirmed by
>responses that included no references to lambs. There is an additional
>problem: Yaeyama forms indicate Proto-Ryukyuan *petu 'lamb', not
>*peto. So, the etymology is probably still possible, but,
>unfortunately for the possibility to strengthen the status of
>Proto-Ryukyuan *peto 'dolphin' at the Proto-Japonic level, it is not
>strong at all.
>     Thank you all again,
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Sasha
>
>
>============
>Alexander Vovin
>Visiting Professor, International Research Center for Japanese Studies, Kyoto &
>Professor of East Asian Languages
>University of Hawaii at Manoa
>
>
>On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Alexander Vovin <sashavovin at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>>         Does anyone know about any possible semantic shifts between
>>  'doplhin' (or 'whale') to 'lamb' (or 'pig') or vice versa? A friend
>>  told me that he vaguely remembers that some language calls whales
>>  'pigs of the sea', but he could not recollect which one.
>>         I will be grateful for any information. Thank you,
>>
>>  Best wishes,
>>
>>  Sasha
>>
>>  --
>>  ============
>>  Alexander Vovin
>>  Visiting Professor, International Research Center for Japanese Studies, Kyoto &
>>  Professor of East Asian Languages
>>  University of Hawaii at Manoa
>>
>
>
>
>--
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