Pre-Greek languages

[Larry Trask]

Pete Gray writes:

> Thank you, Larry, for the summary of Renfrew's article.  I am continually
> amazed how poorly stocked the great libraries of England are on PIE!

>> I'm responding to the idea that
>> ... Greek itself evolved within Greece ... out of a more-or-less vanilla
>> variety of PIE which had already
>> occupied the territory.

> You mention that Renfrew "acknowledges some difficulties" and it may be that
> he answers my question in the article.    I would like to know how he
> maintains this position in the light of a fairly probable Greek -
> Indo-Iranian - Armenian Sprachbund, which on some views is innovative, not
> merely retentive or conserving.   Does he suggest that somehow the I-I-ans
> also originated within Greece?  Or that the vanilla ur-pre-Greek had already
> acquired the characteristics it shares with II and Armenian before its
> speakers occupied the terrritory - which would make it much more raspberry
> ripple than vanilla?   Or does he believe that the shared characteristics
> are mere retentions?   Any of these positions is open to serious question.

Renfrew does not devote much attention to this issue in the article I was
citing.  My own conversations with him suggest to me that he does not regard
the proposed Greek-Armenian-I-I Sprachbund as so well established as to be a
major stumbling block, but I may be putting words into his mouth here.  (Though
note Clackson's book, which largely dismisses the Greek-Armenian idea as
unsubstantiated.)

> By the way, no one ever did tell me if the plural of Sprachbund
> was -unds, -|nde, or -unde.   I guess I go for the middle one, making it a
> language-association, rather than a language-collection.

Oh, I'm quite sure that the <Bund> of <Sprachbund> is the word meaning
'alliance, league', and not the homophonous word meaning 'bunch, bundle'.
So, the German plural should be <Sprachbuende>.

Larry Trask
COGS
University of Sussex
Brighton BN1 9QH
UK

larryt at cogs.susx.ac.uk