"Goth"/ Getae

[X99Lynx at aol.com]

In a message dated 12/14/2000 3:18:28 AM, mcv at wxs.nl writes:
<< The Getae were most likely a Thracian (or Daco-Thracian) people.  There is
no likely connection between Germanic *Gut- "Goth", and the Getae.>>

In a message dated 12/18/2000 10:17:52 PM, anthony.appleyard at UMIST.AC.UK
writes:
<< Re the Getae, a more recent example of a writer using an anachronistic
name for a people, is a tomb inscription in York Minster (a cathedral in
England) that referred to modern Yorkshire or Lincolnshire people as
"Trinobantes"! >>

First, thanks MCV for the help.

The name "Getae," whether earlier identified as a Thracian group or later on
as Dacians, passes to the Goths soon after they make their first appearance
in the 3d century BC.  From that time, a fair number of writers and
inscriptions use the words Getae and Goth interchangeably right up until
Jordanes merges the legends and histories of the two groups in his famous
"Getica."  Also, beginning at about the same time, references to Getae as
Thracians or Dacians disappear from the records.

So I'm coming at this from the angle (suggested by Ingemar Nordstram in his
work) that the people may have changed but that the names might be related.

It may be relevant that Getae also referred not only to peoples but also to a
place -- the "Getian desert" of the various Greek writers in BCE -- located
northeast of the lower Danube and into the Ukraine.  The term desert in Greek
was not necessarily a negative.  It was also used to refer to a "free zone"
so to speak.  This area is in the general location of the pre-literate Goths.

Now I do see instances where for example it has been suggested that Lat
<-e->, Gr <-o-> where < PIE <-e> in some forms involving <ghw->.   If "Goth"
in some form were a borrowed word from Greek or some intermediary tongue (?
Thracian, Scythian), could not "Getans" or "goet- > "Gutans"?  I am not
saying this happened but that it is not probibited by the sound rules?
(Especially since the very name is a reconstruction in early Gothic?)

With regard to anthony.appleyard's comment, there are much closer examples of
Getae and Goth than the "Trinobantes" reference.   Note that the "Germanic"
Franks > "Romance" French.  In the past we've examined on this list the fact
that vlack, welsh, valsk, volock, walloon, uualah and possibly volcae may be
related words all describing very different people in very different places.
 And it occurs to me that there's no small irony in the heirs of Horsa and
Hengist describing themselves as British.

Regards,
Steve Long