an onomatopoeic toddler

[Shelley Velleman]

In some cases, "twin languages" turn out to be phonologically  
impaired children who share certain patterns.

In the Icelandic case, given that the girl did not ever learn the  
standard language, I would suspect that there was some kind of  
disorder there.

Shelley Velleman



"If someone tells you your ideas are half-assed, turn the other cheek"
	-- Alice Callum

Shelley Velleman
Communication Disorders
Univ. of Mass. - Amherst
velleman at comdis.umass.edu



On Aug 29, 2007, at 11:14 AM, Dan I. Slobin wrote:

> footnote on the Icelandic case:
> This was not an instance of onomatopoeia, but of twin language.  A  
> boy and girl twin in the late 18th century, as reported by a 19th  
> century Danish linguist, created a private language, as is  
> sometimes documented for twins.  Because they weren't readily  
> acquiring standard Icelandic, the parents separated the twins,  
> sending the boy to a distant farm, where he died.  After that, the  
> girl continued to speak their shared language, and the community  
> learned it in order to communicate with her and to insure that she  
> learned enough religion for the salvation of her soul.  There is  
> almost no documentation of the language, so we can't know how close  
> it was to Icelandic.  The few other documented twin languages that  
> I know of turn out to be quite clearly based on the surrounding  
> language, with some phonological alterations and some innovations.   
> Has anyone documented the extent to which such innovations are  
> creative sound icons like those reported by Marie?
>
> another footnote:
> Marie's examples seem to be attempts at iconic representation in  
> the acoustic modality, like visual icons in the motor modality  
> shown in early gesture in both hearing and deaf children.
>
> Dan Slobin
>
>
> At 06:47 AM 8/29/2007, Brian MacWhinney wrote:
>> Dear Marie,
>>    All children do this to some degree.  What is remarkable is  
>> that some
>> chidlren only do a little bit of this and others much more.  It  
>> would be
>> very helpful if you could tabulate his complete vocabulary and  
>> compute the
>> percentage of words that are conventional from the total.  It  
>> would also be
>> helpful if you could track this over the next 10 months. If you  
>> had just
>> this basic information on a case of this type, you would perhaps  
>> have more
>> than I can think of in the current literature.  Possibly other  
>> info-childes
>> readers will know of something I have missed.
>>     There is, of course, the famous case of the lady in Iceland  
>> who invented
>> her own language and forced everyone to learn that.  If you  
>> couldn't speak
>> her language, you couldn't really interact with her at all.  I  
>> wonder what
>> experiences your son has when trying to communicate with people  
>> outside your
>> family who have not yet learned his language.
>>
>> --Brian MacWhinney
>>
>>
>> On 8/29/07 6:05 AM, "mariehojholt" <mariehojholt at stofanet.dk> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Dear all!
>> > Being new at this network I wish to thank you all for a  
>> fantastic opportunity
>> > to correspond with equals, or, kind of. I am graduate student of  
>> linguistics
>> > in Aarhus, Denmark.
>> > Here is my question:
>> > I am looking for relevant studies of children who do not seem to  
>> acquire
>> > actual words as much as onomatopoeic sounds.
>> > My two-year-old son Harald, is developing "according to plan"  
>> but doesn't care
>> > for the "linguistic symbols that the surrounding environment has as
>> > consensus": words.
>> >
>> > Here is a short list of his sounds and utterances:
>> > "Mor (mummy) aa-aj (~not) bzzz (sound of fly) krqr  
>> (sound of
>> > breaking which means "egg") - pip-pip (sound of bird) 
>>  krqr
>> > (sound of breaking" 
>> > - so: Mummy, flies don't have eggs, BIRDS have eggs!"
>> >
>> > "words":
>> > water: "aah!" (sound you make after drinking)
>> > food: "mtl-mtl" (chewing-sound)
>> > sleeping/bed: "hhhrr-pfffff" (sleeping sound)
>> > toothbrush: "hrhr-hrhr"
>> > Cracker/"broken"/egg: "krqr" 
>> > Pooridge: "ph-ph-ph" (sound of boiling)
>> >
>> >
>> > Apart from this he uses all the usual onomatopoeic sounds  
>> typical for
>> > children: animal sounds, vehicle sounds...
>> > He does have some actual words: Mom, dad, diper, blue, Gorm  
>> (brother), home,
>> > now, more, shoe, in, ...but not too many verbs.
>> > I hope some of you have comments on this, or links, references  
>> or anything.
>> > I am not worried about him, since he is a happy, clever boy who  
>> communicates
>> > adequately and relevantly, and - to me - intelligably.
>> > Though, I am hyperinterested in understanding his procedures and  
>> apparently
>> > somewhat onomatopoeic-ICONIC language behaviour.
>> > He is not interested in us telling him what the real words are,  
>> and if we try
>> > to push him, he ignores us or get angry.
>> > All my best,
>> > Marie Hoejholt
>> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Dan I. Slobin, Professor of the Graduate School
> Professor Emeritus of Psychology and Linguistics
>
> Department of Psychology        email: slobin at berkeley.edu
> 3210 Tolman #1650                 phone (Dept):  1-510-642-5292
> University of California             phone (home): 1-510-848-1769
> Berkeley, CA 94720-1650         fax: 1-510-642-5293
> USA                                      http://ihd.berkeley.edu/ 
> slobin.htm
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>

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