pragmatic bootstrapping

Tue Mar 22 17:49:02 UTC 2011

Is it liberation from context or the adoption of a different one?
Seems to me imagination is about possible worlds, i.e. other contexts
Yonata

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Tom Roeper <roeper at linguist.umass.edu>wrote:

> It is pretty simple---if language is an autonomous system--we can form
> non-sense sentences---and
> possibly worlds.  All of creativity involves imagining and distorting how
> things are--going against
> context and reality----sometimes in a possible world, or may be an
> impossible one.
>     this is what Jabberwocky showed about a century ago.  It is the moment
> of liberation from context
> that we have to capture.
>
> Tom
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 12:29 PM, suse <sgrass at gmx.net> wrote:
>
>>  i wouldn't eve have thought that "anti-pragmatic ability is the sign of
>> true acquisition"...
>>
>> Does that mean that one fully acquired language only when one is able to
>> use it inappropriately?
>> If this is what is meant, then i wonder how humankind was able to maintain
>> the ability to communicate linguistically. Or does the above statement mean
>> that true acquisition relates to the ability to understand sentences which
>> make no or little sense in our world (but may be true in other worlds in
>> which mice get eaten by cheese rather than the other way round and in which
>> Chomsky is an advocate of pragmatic bootstrapping?)
>>
>> regards,
>> Suse
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 22-03-11 17:03, schrieb Tom Roeper:
>>
>> Sorry---you know I was typing fast, and it is 1976---but I guess if we
>> went back to Panini, one
>> could probably find the idea earlier.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Matthew Saxton <M.Saxton at ioe.ac.uk>wrote:
>>
>>>  > ...... *embedded in Chomsky's remark in 1076 ......*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I realise Chomsky has been around for some time, but who’d’ve though it?
>>> He precedes the invention of the printing press......
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Matthew Saxton.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *********************************************************************************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Saxton Academic Homepage <http://www.ioe.ac.uk/staff/PHDT/PHDT_71.html>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:
>>> info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom Roeper
>>> *Sent:* 22 March 2011 12:37
>>> *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: pragmatic bootstrapping
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anat---
>>>     in the paper I wrote in 1981 for the Wanner Gleitman volume, I argued
>>> that children needed pragmatic
>>> mapping onto syntax to justify transformations.  That means a
>>> simultaneous syntactic and pragmatic
>>> information.  It is in my book as well---and actually embedded in
>>> Chomsky's remark in 1076 Reflections
>>> on Language, that acqusition must be consistent with "trigtering
>>> experience" I said to him that must include
>>> pragmatics and he agreed.
>>>    It is obvious that it is hard to understand:
>>>        the cat was chased by the dog.
>>> but the chld has a big semantic.pragmatic  advantage when they hear:
>>>
>>> the milk was drunk by the boy
>>>
>>> because they know that milk cannot drink boy.  If there is syntax is
>>> ready to project a transformation,
>>> then they use that information and visual support to say "milk has to get
>>> into the object position somehow,
>>> do I have a mental operation to do it".
>>>       Once acquired, it will be autonomous and apply without pragmatics,
>>> so if I tell a 3yr old:
>>>
>>>       the cheese ate the mouse
>>>
>>> they laugh, because they know, anti-pragmatically, that it is true.  An
>>> anti-pragmatic ability is the
>>> sign of true acquisition.
>>>
>>> best, Tom  Roeper
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 6:17 PM, parisa Daftarifard <
>>> pdaftaryfard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Anat,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Very interesting topic.....I am not sure but lack of language development
>>> or language development delay can occur because of problems in pragmatic
>>> bootstrapping in some children. Kids with low possibility of being involved
>>> in interaction-- when mothers or fathers are busy or when kids live in a
>>> poor-interaction environment-- showed to have language delay. This is
>>> especially interesting when we consider that TVs are always on and they can
>>> get enough input in a unilateral way.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best.
>>>
>>> Parisa Daftarifard
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 7:37 AM, Anat Ninio <
>>> msninio at pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear List,
>>>
>>> Sorry to have sent this to the whole list by mistake, but actually I'd
>>> love to hear from anybody who knows of studies that can be said to test the
>>> hypothesis that children learn syntax by "pragmatic bootstrapping".
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Anat Ninio
>>>
>>>
>>> On 17-03-11 06:01, Anat Ninio wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Nameera,
>>>
>>> Thanks a lot!  Absolutely coincidentally this very minute I'm reading
>>> your 2008 (or is it 2009?) encyclopedia entry
>>>
>>> Akhtar, N., & Herold, K. (2008). Pragmatic development. In M. M. Haith &
>>> J. B. Benson (Eds.), *Encyclopedia of infant and early childhood
>>> development,* Vol. *2* (pp. 572-581). San Diego, CA: Academic Press.
>>>
>>> which I want to cite for a research proposal for an European grant.
>>> First, is it 2008 or 2009? Second, you say
>>>
>>> "We know of no empirical research, however, that has directly addressed
>>> the question of whether children learn syntactic constructions in the same
>>> way as they learn words; that is,  through "pragmatic bootstrapping" or
>>> attention to speakers' intentions." (p.319)
>>>
>>> Would you still say so? Or is there some new study that you know of that I
>>> should mention? Any newer publication of yours on this point?
>>>
>>> Thanks a lot and see you in SRCD for sure,
>>>
>>> Anat
>>>
>>>
>>> On 17-03-11 05:14, nameera akhtar wrote:
>>>
>>> congratulations, anat!
>>>
>>> hope to see you at srcd,
>>>
>>> nameera
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Anat Ninio <
>>> msninio at pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Friends and Colleagues,
>>>
>>> I'm very happy to be able to announce the publication of my new book by
>>> Oxford University Press.  It is entitled   "Syntactic development, its
>>> input and output" and a description of it, as well as a link to the
>>> Introduction, can be found on the publisher's on-line catalogue at
>>> http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780199565962.do
>>>
>>> I hope you'll like it!
>>>
>>> Anat Ninio
>>>
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>>> --
>>>
>>> Parisa Daftarifard
>>>
>>> Phd Student of TEFL
>>>
>>> Islamic Azad University of Science and Research
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> --
>>> Tom Roeper
>>> Dept of Lingiustics
>>> UMass South College
>>> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA
>>> 413 256 0390
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tom Roeper
>> Dept of Lingiustics
>> UMass South College
>> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA
>> 413 256 0390
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>
>
>
> --
> Tom Roeper
> Dept of Lingiustics
> UMass South College
> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA
> 413 256 0390
>
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-- 
 *Prof. Yonata Levy*
*Psychology Department *
*and Hadassah-Hebrew University Medical School*
*Mount Scopus*
*Jerusalem 91905, ISRAEL*
**
*tel:972-2-5883408 (o)*
*     972-547905997 (c)*

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