McArthur Bates CDI for Somali?
Jeanine Treffers-Daller
Jeanine.Treffers-Daller at uwe.ac.uk
Sat Mar 26 15:59:38 UTC 2011
Dear all
I'd be very grateful if you could let me know if the McArthur Bates Communicative Development Inventory has been developed for Somali (or another Cushitic language).
I have been in touch with Philip Dale who is unaware of any adaptations for Somali.
thanks a lot for your help!
best wishes
Jeanine
=========================
Professor Jeanine Treffers-Daller
Professor of Linguistics
Department of English, Linguistics and Communication
Faculty of Creative Arts, Humanities and Education
Frenchay Campus
Coldharbour Lane
Bristol
BS16 1QY
tel. 00-44-117-3282390
Room 4D03
________________________________
From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Roeper [roeper at linguist.umass.edu]
Sent: 23 March 2011 01:53
To: info-childes at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: pragmatic bootstrapping
Hi---
yes the name of the game is to specify the mechanism. I think there will be what I call "strict interfaces"
that link many of these things. For instance: imperatives involve a mapping between speaker and hearer,
situation, syntax of subject deletion, intonation and the mapping seems automatic. Social and distributional
factors are a part of the situation. I am not sure about Bayseian information. Frequency is not a meaningful
notion if it is not frequency of something, as soon as it is a something, a phonetic or phonologial object, it already
has a representation--so you cannot "get" the representation through frequency, although it might seem that way
because in fact you get many subparts of the representation one by one. LIke the phonology of the beginning middle
and end of a word might have separate learning events before you ever say the word.
The challenge is to specify the mapping---pragmatics, phonetics, intonation, phonology, syntax, semantics---
bootstrapping is a very misleading term because it makes things seem one way when they never are.
YOur eyes don't choose the light that they take in, but they choose to form extremely complex objects. How to
connect the object with a sound involves many pre-existing mental assumptions. Suppose you associate a word
with an object in motion. Why do that? It is not inevitable, it is a mental bias.
Tom
On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Mohinish <mohinish.s at gmail.com<mailto:mohinish.s at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi all,
if I may jump in - I think (specially in early formulations) it was left somewhat unspecified what the various, sufficient sources of information that lead to acquisition are; the strong claim was that they lead to the induction of linguistic structures. So, if the baby sees that a hypothesized, projected linguistic structure leads to an inference that is wrong for pragmatic reasons, this should lead to the baby projecting a new hypothesis about the linguistic structure. Tom's argument is that this is an important source for the child to understand what kind of structures might contain transformations.
More generally, one can replace 'pragmatic reason' with any of the other cognitive factors, like 'distributional reason' or 'social reason' or 'Bayesian reason' - in every case, however, what these must do is inform the learner about the hypotheses regarding possible linguistic structures. - i.e., confirm or disconfirm the hypotheses about the underlying linguistic structure. I think in this sense, it is simultaneous syntactic and pragmatic in what Tom writes. Nothing stops it being simultaneously syntactic and distributional and pragmatic, or any other combination. Maybe all of them are necessary...
Mo
On Mar 22, 2011, at 3:22 PM, parisa Daftarifard wrote:
Dear Tom, you wrote
"That means a simultaneous syntactic and pragmatic information. "
I think pragmatic information should be followed by syntactic. babies learn pragmatics well sooner than syntax when they respond their parents smile with smile. What Chomsky states, I believe, is that syntactic bootstrapping is what actually happened through triggering the UG system, not pragmatic one. I mean first language learning / acquisition is triggered then other things happen. I think Anat , please correct me if I am wrong, believes that pragmatic bootstrapping is the starting point for the kids?
Autistic children have problem in processing pragmatics and have language delay. through ABA program what they learn, besides many things, even in high functioning autism, is how to respond different discourses and learn to respond pragmatically. Some of them, when learn to be pragmatic, turn into creative language user.
Best,
Parisa
On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:06 PM, Tom Roeper <roeper at linguist.umass.edu<mailto:roeper at linguist.umass.edu>> wrote:
Anat---
in the paper I wrote in 1981 for the Wanner Gleitman volume, I argued that children needed pragmatic
mapping onto syntax to justify transformations. That means a simultaneous syntactic and pragmatic
information. It is in my book as well---and actually embedded in Chomsky's remark in 1076 Reflections
on Language, that acqusition must be consistent with "trigtering experience" I said to him that must include
pragmatics and he agreed.
It is obvious that it is hard to understand:
the cat was chased by the dog.
but the chld has a big semantic.pragmatic advantage when they hear:
the milk was drunk by the boy
because they know that milk cannot drink boy. If there is syntax is ready to project a transformation,
then they use that information and visual support to say "milk has to get into the object position somehow,
do I have a mental operation to do it".
Once acquired, it will be autonomous and apply without pragmatics, so if I tell a 3yr old:
the cheese ate the mouse
they laugh, because they know, anti-pragmatically, that it is true. An anti-pragmatic ability is the
sign of true acquisition.
best, Tom Roeper
On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 6:17 PM, parisa Daftarifard <pdaftaryfard at gmail.com<mailto:pdaftaryfard at gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear Anat,
Very interesting topic.....I am not sure but lack of language development or language development delay can occur because of problems in pragmatic bootstrapping in some children. Kids with low possibility of being involved in interaction-- when mothers or fathers are busy or when kids live in a poor-interaction environment-- showed to have language delay. This is especially interesting when we consider that TVs are always on and they can get enough input in a unilateral way.
Best.
Parisa Daftarifard
On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 7:37 AM, Anat Ninio <msninio at pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il<mailto:msninio at pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il>> wrote:
Dear List,
Sorry to have sent this to the whole list by mistake, but actually I'd love to hear from anybody who knows of studies that can be said to test the hypothesis that children learn syntax by "pragmatic bootstrapping".
Thanks,
Anat Ninio
On 17-03-11 06:01, Anat Ninio wrote:
Hi Nameera,
Thanks a lot! Absolutely coincidentally this very minute I'm reading your 2008 (or is it 2009?) encyclopedia entry
Akhtar, N., & Herold, K. (2008). Pragmatic development. In M. M. Haith & J. B. Benson (Eds.), Encyclopedia of infant and early childhood development, Vol. 2 (pp. 572-581). San Diego, CA: Academic Press.
which I want to cite for a research proposal for an European grant. First, is it 2008 or 2009? Second, you say
"We know of no empirical research, however, that has directly addressed the question of whether children learn syntactic constructions in the same way as they learn words; that is, through "pragmatic bootstrapping" or attention to speakers' intentions." (p.319)
Would you still say so? Or is there some new study that you know of that I should mention? Any newer publication of yours on this point?
Thanks a lot and see you in SRCD for sure,
Anat
On 17-03-11 05:14, nameera akhtar wrote:
congratulations, anat!
hope to see you at srcd,
nameera
On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Anat Ninio <msninio at pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il<mailto:msninio at pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il>> wrote:
Dear Friends and Colleagues,
I'm very happy to be able to announce the publication of my new book by Oxford University Press. It is entitled "Syntactic development, its input and output" and a description of it, as well as a link to the Introduction, can be found on the publisher's on-line catalogue at http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780199565962.do
I hope you'll like it!
Anat Ninio
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group.
To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com<mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com>.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com<mailto:info-childes%2Bunsubscribe at googlegroups.com>.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/info-childes?hl=en.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group.
To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com<mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com>.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com<mailto:info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/info-childes?hl=en.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group.
To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com<mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com>.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com<mailto:info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/info-childes?hl=en.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group.
To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com<mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com>.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com<mailto:info-childes%2Bunsubscribe at googlegroups.com>.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/info-childes?hl=en.
--
Parisa Daftarifard
Phd Student of TEFL
Islamic Azad University of Science and Research
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group.
To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com<mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com>.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com<mailto:info-childes%2Bunsubscribe at googlegroups.com>.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/info-childes?hl=en.
--
Tom Roeper
Dept of Lingiustics
UMass South College
Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA
413 256 0390<tel:413%20256%200390>
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group.
To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com<mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com>.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com<mailto:info-childes%2Bunsubscribe at googlegroups.com>.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/info-childes?hl=en.
--
Parisa Daftarifard
Phd Student of TEFL
Islamic Azad University of Science and Research
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group.
To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com<mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com>.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com<mailto:info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/info-childes?hl=en.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group.
To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com<mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com>.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com<mailto:info-childes%2Bunsubscribe at googlegroups.com>.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/info-childes?hl=en.
--
Tom Roeper
Dept of Lingiustics
UMass South College
Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA
413 256 0390
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group.
To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/info-childes?hl=en.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group.
To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/info-childes?hl=en.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/info-childes/attachments/20110326/ce56576e/attachment.htm>
More information about the Info-childes
mailing list