Idiom comprehension in L2 learners

Fri Jun 6 18:03:01 UTC 2014

It is true that individuals who are learning a second language (L2) often struggle to understand the idioms of the L2 (Liu, 2008). This is because idioms do not translate easily from one language to another and are culturally specific. For example, a literal translation of the French idiom avoir le cafard (to have the cockroach) would not make sense to the English-speaking person whose L2 is French until the individual learns that the expression means to be bored and depressed (Delp, 2013) or down in the dumps (Cousin, 1989). Conversely, a literal translation of down in the dumps might confuse the native French speaker who is learning English as an L2. This is in contrast to proverbs, which are more easily translated from one language to another. For example, the following proverb is Russian, but we all understand it instantly:
“The church is near but the road is all ice. The tavern is far, but I’ll walk very carefully.” That’s just the nature of different types of figurative expressions (and human beings).

Marilyn Nippold
University of Oregon
USA

From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gordon, Peter
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 7:39 AM
To: info-childes at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language

One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the non-native language.  This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native speakers.  It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing.

Peter Gordon

On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson <k1n at psu.edu> wrote:
HI all.    Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study (also discussed in  the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for idioms.   Best regards,  Keith N

		Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of idiomatic language expressions                          in a group intervention for children with autism, Autism, 17, 449-464.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Keith Nelson <k1n at psu.edu>
Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language
To: info-childes at googlegroups.com, Keith Nelson <keithnelsonart at gmail.com>

Hi all.   I m attaching a JSLHR  paper just out from our lab that reviews lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension.   Cheers,  Keith 

On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper <roeper at linguist.umass.edu> wrote:
Hi folks--

just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard:
     "I know a shortcut"
     "well, I know a shorter cut"
and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke".

I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears
in the volume for Jüregen Weisenborn by Mouton--it
relates to complex sentences.

  Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent
to children's comprehension of them.  A child with
a stomache who said"
       "there's a fireengine in my stomach"
or a child with a stuffed nose who said:
       "there's paint in my nose".

Deviations from compositionality can still be logically
motivated.

Tom Roeper

On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ÖZCAN <mehozcan20 at gmail.com> wrote:
		Dear Hüseyin,
		(I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well)
		*         (Concerning your question about the location of data collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as “prototype words”; watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your  sentences depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. 
		*         One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions.
		*         Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather than the expressions’ containing prototypical elements. You know, some birds are birder than other birds. Some idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities.
		*         Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. 
		I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding study. Good luck in all ways.

On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote:
Dear all,

First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts).

I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by Gibbs and Colston in http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747). So my questions are as follows:
*	What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child language?
*	Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, or more generally figurative language?
*	Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design?
*	What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another perspective.)
*	A third research field having just popped into my mind is child directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research?
Thanks,
Huseyin
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Tom Roeper
Dept of Lingiustics
UMass South College
Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA
413 256 0390 <tel:413%20256%200390>  
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-- 
Peter Gordon, Associate Professor
Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180
Teachers College, Columbia University
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Fax:     212 678-8233
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