[Lexicog] new nosey word

[Preslav Ivanov Nakov]

-----Original Message-----
From: Koontz John E [mailto:john.koontz at colorado.edu]

I don't know enough about Czech or Serbian to elucidate the detailed
phonetics of either, but this is an old argument in linguistics.  I believe
I can manage vlk, v<schwa>lk, and vl<schwa>k distinctively, without knowing
if I approximate Czech in any case.  There are basicly two levels at which
this argument can be fought - the phonetic and the phonological.  At the
phonetic level it appears that any sound that is extendible can be the peak
of sonority of a syllable, e.g., the range of r and l sounds, nasal "stops",
fricatives, and stop releases.

At the phonetic level it appears that any sound that is
extendible can be the peak of sonority of a syllable, e.g., the range of r
and l sounds, nasal "stops", fricatives, and stop releases.

At the phonological level much depends on the internal logic of the system
and whether, for example, there are reduced vowels that pattern with
potential instances of non-vocalic syllable peaks.  At this level I can
well imagine that things might work differently in different branches of
Slavic.
<<< Serbian in geographically next to Bulgarian. They are both South
Slavonic languages. Macedonian is very very close to Bulgarian (considered
as a dialect of it, but I do not want to engage in political discussions
here). E.g. when a Bulgarian president/politician meets a Macedonian
colleague he never uses translation - there is no need. Still, in Macedonian
they have no vowel for the sound used in the English "cut". But it is still
there in the language. And they do use apostrophe to indicate that in some
particular word the vowel should be put not where it is normally. E.g. v'rv
vs. vr'v. They assume one of these forms as the norm, and use an explicit
apostrophe for the other form. They do not really try to pronounce it in a
third way with no vowel at all.

In connection with reading this some years ago in a class conducted by
Alan Bell, he played a tape (by Aert Kuipers and various speakers of NW
languages, I think) which was fairly astounding to listen to.  On the
other hand, I think Alan said at the time that [Ilse Lehiste?]'s reaction
to the tape had been "Short voiceless vowels."

<<< Listening to records is always fun. And I appreciate how hard it can be
to believe for someone that there is a vowel on either side of "r" or "l"
when his grammar says there isn't. I remember a demo by Prof. Barry when
there was an analysis of the pronunciation of a particular word "kato" in
running speech. In the Eastern dialects of Bulgarian it can be pronounced as
"k'to" (where the apostrophe means or vowel in question), and even more
likely as "k'tu". But in fact it sounded as "k't'". And nobody believed,
anybody believed to here "k'tu". When the two vowels of that word have been
cut and played in isolation, they sounded both as a clear '.


Finally, I admit that the phonetic system of the different Slavonic
languages could have developed in different ways in the different languages.
The Old Bulgarian language (which is the first written form of the common
Slavonic language of the IXth century) had this particular vowel. So it is
natural to expect it. I guess it should be in decline in most Slavonic
languages, as it appears only next to "r" and "l" in Czech and only as
followed by "y" (read as a consonant, e.g. in Yankee) in Russian. But it is
fully functional in Bulgarian and is free to appear everywhere as any other
vowel. BTW the Old Slavonic/Bulgarian had some additional vowels, e.g. nasal
ones that one finds in today's French, that are lost today.


Preslav




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