[Lexicog] new nosey word

[Mike Maxwell]

Preslav Ivanov Nakov wrote:
> I can clearly here a sort of vowel between "t" and "l" (if you want,
> "a short voiceless vowel"). You can consult the Merriam-Webster
> Online Dictionary...

I think the issue here is dialect.  There are doubtless dialects where there
is a short vowel between the 't' and the 'l', and I suppose whoever wrote
the pronunciation for the MW dictionary has one.  But in my particular
dialect, I'm quite certain there's nothing but a syllabic 'l', no vowel.
(And certainly not a voiceless vowel, since I have a voiced flap for the
't'--thus no context for devoicing.)

> I guess the main thing it: are these kinds of short vowels a vowel or
> not? To me it is more a question of definition.

Yes; Ken Pike coined the term 'vocoid' for certain things (I'm not sure
whether he would have used it in this case), because it was not always clear
whether a phonetic 'thing' was a vowel in any particular language.

And if there is a phonetic vowel, is there necessarily a phonemic vowel?
That's an issue of definition, for certain.  (I'm not saying I believe in
hocus-pocus linguistics, just that if you asked two linguists on the the
phonemic status of epenthetic vowels, you'll probably get theree theories.
And I don't claim to have the right theory--at least, not in public.)

BTW, as I was looking over this msg, I noticed I had misspelled 'three' as
"theree".  But given the context of the discussion, I decided to leave it
that way!

    Mike Maxwell
    Linguistic Data Consortium
    maxwell at ldc.upenn.edu



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