[Lexicog] archaic entries
Filip Rudolf
keiefar_66 at YAHOO.COM
Sat Feb 11 07:48:57 UTC 2006
My question was a rhetorical one. I know that 'archaic' and 'old-fasioned' are not interchageable but that's precisely what a dictionary user can sometimes think. And I chose the word 'perchance' simply because teams of eminent lexicographers don't seem to agree how to label it, which in turn means that the boundaries between these notions are somewhat fuzzy. I could try and find a better word, devoid of poetic connotations but it wouldn't change anything. Dictionaries are usually wriiten for average users, not for lexicographers or linguists, and these users are likely to be confused when they see the same words labelled in three or four different ways.
Filip Rudolf
Filip Rudolf <keiefar_66 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Creative speakers surely cannot be stopped. People frequently revive words which are no longer commonly used simply because they want to enliven their speech. However, that doesn't mean a particular word ceases to be archaic.
Let me quote David Crystal: 'An archaism is a feature of an older state of the language which continues to be used while retaining the aura of its past'. (italics mine) (The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language, p. 185).
Labelling words in a dictionary is probably the trickiest task a lexicographer is faced with - the word 'perchance' is a good case in point:
'old use' - Cambridge International Dictionary of English (1995)
'archaic' or 'poetic' - 'The New Collins Dictionary and Thesaurus' (1989)
'old use' - 'Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary' (2000)
'chiefly poetic or humorous' - 'Longman Dictionary of the English Language' (1994)
'an old-fashioned or literary word' - 'Collins Cobuild' (1990)
Is 'archaic' the same as 'old-fashioned'? Are these notios interchangeable?
Who should make judgements - how should these judgements be made? Incidentally, the same holds good for such labels as 'spoken', 'informal', 'colloquial', 'slang'...
Filip
Fritz Goerling <Fritz_Goerling at sil.org> wrote: "Obsolete" might go one step further. I have heard it used as a club (or should I say "axe"?)
by people who had an axe to grind and who tried to expunge words from the
language that did not fit their ideological agenda. Such language engineering usually
backfires.
Fritz Goerling
It might be worth asking how various people differentiate "archaic" from "obsolete" while we're at it.
Andrew Dunbar.
On 2/10/06, Fritz Goerling <Fritz_Goerling at sil.org> wrote: Good point, Phil,
Such a judgment can kill a word. There is also the possibility of resurrecting or rejuvenating a word labelled
"archaic." Who can hinder creative speakers from doing so?
Fritz Goerling
thanks Filip, Jimm, I was also hoping to know who was making the judgement of a term being 'archaic' - the lexicographer or the speaker consultant(s) or speech community.
qo'c (later),
Phil Cash Cash
On Feb 10, 2006, at 1:04 AM, Filip Rudolf wrote:
goodtracks at peoplepc.com wrote: I use "archaic" as a term that has documented use in past generations, but
is no longer used or known by present day speakers. There may be persons
who recall the term however.
I use "old" for those terms that may be heard from and used by a few
persons, but are not the usual word or pronunciation of a word that is
current.
Jimm
----- Original Message -----
From: "phil cash cash" <pasxapu at DAKOTACOM.NET>
To: < lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 3:03 PM
Subject: [Lexicog] archaic entries
> Hi everybody,
>
> I just wanted to ask for some input on the intent or meaning behind
> defining a dictionary entry as "archaic."
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Phil Cash Cash
> University of Arizona
<no longer used or known by present day speakers> Well, perhaps <no longer used> would suffice. Forms such as 'thou art' or 'thou shalt' are no longer used but are surely understood by educated speakers. It would be interesting to have a closer look at such labels as 'old', 'old use', 'archaic', 'obsolescent' or 'obsolete' as the the distinctions between them are not clear-cut.
Filip
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