[Lexicog] gendered language references

Sun Nov 26 11:06:51 UTC 2006

Dear Hayim,

Just call me "Bruder" (haver, brother), as we have the same father of faith
Abraham.

Thanks a lot for your interesting cultural and historical explanation of
Israel as "fatherland" and "home country" for religious and secular Jews.

Shalom, Haver,

Fritz

Lieber Herr Fritz,

For the religeous Jews ha-aretz is eretz avot (the country of forefathers)
and they see aliya as return to their historical homeland (seing the Bible
as history).
For the secular Jews which are the majority of the Jews in recent years this
is
the historical and cultural fatherland.
When Theodor Herzl, a Hungarian Jew, established his theories of Zionizm, --
(he worked at the end of 1890s and first years of the 20th century), -- he
first looked for the thecratic principles not because he himself was a
religious Jew (on the contrary he was a secular European Jew of
Austro-Hungarian Empire), but because the Jewish masses lived "in der tiefer
Religiositaet," and he coudn't propagate his vies other than trough the
prism of religion.
The relation of diaspora Jews to the Holy Land was in great measure similar
to relation of so called Volksdeutsche to German metropolia. You probably
hear about return of ! Baltic Germans and Volga Germans to Germany before
WWII
and after the war to their country. And some of them were out of Germany 400
or 200 years.
To ascribe every Israeli who made aliya only religious impulse is incorrect,
but
some more traditional Jews are doing this because of sincere love to the
country
of forefathers, and they usually idealize it.
However if you share whatever I am writing with a Rabbi, he would disagree.

Hayim Sheynin

Fritz Goerling <Fritz_Goerling at sil.org> wrote:

Hayim,

When God told patriarch Abraham to leave his country, relatives and his
father's house

in Gen. 12:1, how is country (erets) perceived by a native speaker of
Hebrew? Is there any idea of "fatherland" or "motherland" in modern Hebrew?
When Jews make Aliya, do they come back to Israel just as "ha erets" (as
their "homeland") or to the land of their fathers?

Is there any politically correct movement, like in the anglophone world,
among modern Hebrew speakers who avoid talking about "fathers" and prefer
"ancestors?"

Shalom,

Fritz

Dear Ken,

On the other hand, what is striking that Latin word patria is feminine. If
you can imagine a simile that you country like a mother for you, why patria
even it is derived etimologically from pater, cannot be  feminine.
The same relates to patrimonia. The problem with gender of these words lie
not with the language, but rather with the thought. On one hand, you may
explain 
that patria is the country of your forefathers and  foremothers and
patrimonia  is
the property (and legacy) of your forefathers and foremothers,  on the other
that
the roots of these words reflect reality of the patriarchal society, where
fathers were the "top" persons. 

--Hayim Sheynin

"Kenneth C. Hill" <kennethchill at yahoo.com> wrote:

Grammatical gender is an insufficient explanation. I find it striking that
in Spanish, the word for "fatherland" is grammatically feminine: la patria.
Patria is a Latin word derived from pat(e)r 'father' + the feminine
derivational suffix -ia.

--Ken

saghar sharifi <saghar_sharifi at yahoo.com> wrote:

The answer to your question would be that in some languages, as in German,
the word " language " is feminine.

 Leman <wayne_leman at sil.org> wrote:

I'm wondering about English terms for kinds of languages:

Why do we speak of a mother tongue but not a father tongue?

Why do we speak of sister languages but not brother languages?

Why are there daughter languages but not son languages?

Why can we refer to both a motherland and a fatherland?

Do other languages use kinship terms to refer to language relationships?

Wayne
-----
Wayne Leman
Cheyenne dictionary online:
http://www11. <http://www11.asphost4free.com/cheyennedictionary/default.htm>
asphost4free.com/cheyennedictionary/default.htm

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