Secondary entries (was Re: [Lexicog] Query on how to deal with coined words)

Mon Apr 2 09:45:24 UTC 2007

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the extended help :) That gives me an idea of what approach
to take regarding that problem.

I am also unsure of my approach regarding secondary entries. I would
have wanted related phrases to be entered as secondary entries under
the headwords they are composed of, like this:

\lx puti
...
\se puti og itlog
...

But I realize I also need to put the same secondary entry under other
entry or entries:

\lx puti
...
\se puti og itlog
...

\lx itlog
...
\se puti og itlog
...

This means I will have to update (at least) two parts of the file if
in case I need to change s.t. on the \se field. So what I am doing is
to put the secondary entry as a full entry in its own right:

\lx puti
...
\cf puti og itlog

\lx itlog
...
\cf puti og itlog

\lx puti og itlog
...
\cf puti
\cf itlog

Is this acceptable? Thanks in advance!

---Bentong Isles 

--- In lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com, "Ron Moe" <ron_moe at ...> wrote:
>
> The etymology section of a dictionary article is the place for all
> information on a word's history, including (1) words that have a
continuous
> history in the language straight from the original proto language,
(2) words
> that have been borrowed, both from related languages and unrelated
> languages, (3) words that were coined, either by adapting existing
words or
> by making up a completely new word. The history of a word can be very
> involved with numerous attested archaic forms and with a history of
> borrowings from language to language. Sometimes it is possible to
determine
> the approximate date at which a word was borrowed. Sometimes the
history of
> a word is uncertain. Consequently it is sometimes necessary to
discuss the
> history of a word in sentence format. Unfortunately the database
structure
> of Toolbox and the fields used by MDF do not facilitate involved
> discussions. Instead they were designed to handle specific pieces of
> information. These are the fields available:
> 
>  
> 
> \bw Borrowed word. Used for denoting the source language of a
borrowed word.
> 
> \et Etymology. The etymology for the lexeme is put here, e.g.: \et
*babuy
> 
> \eg Etymology gloss. The published gloss for the etymological
reference is
> given here.
> 
> \ec Etymology comment. Any comments the researcher needs to add
concerning
> the etymology of the lexeme can be given here. Not intended for
printing.
> 
> \es Etymology source. The reference or source abbreviation for
etymology of
> the lexeme is given here. Use a Range Set.
> 
>  
> 
> This system works OK if all you want to do is indicate the source
language
> of a borrowed word or the proto form of an inherited word. But there are
> problems with the system:
> 
>  
> 
> \bw This is only designed for the language name. If you want to also
> indicate the form, there is no easy way to do this. You can combine the
> language name and form in the same field, but you may have to use
different
> fonts for the two. It is difficult (but not impossible) to combine
two fonts
> in the same field. If you want to record a succession of borrowings, you
> would have to put everything into this one field. To produce an
article like
> the following would be difficult:
> 
>  
> 
> grace n. Seemingly effortless beauty or charm of movement, form, or
> proportion. [Middle English, from Old French, from Latin gra:tia, from
> gra:tus, pleasing. See gwere- in Appendix].
> 
>  
> 
> If you are using the same font for the source language name and the
form of
> the word, you can combine them in the \bw field:
> 
>  
> 
> \lx siyudad
> 
> \bw Spanish: ciudad
> 
>  
> 
> \et This field is designed for just the reconstructed proto form. It
would
> normally be used for the form in the proto-language. The field was not
> designed for indicating successive stages in a word's history. If
you want
> to use the field for just the proto form, you can't also use it for a
> discussion of successive stages. For instance in English we often
want to
> indicate the form of the word in Middle English, Old English,
> proto-Germanic, and proto-Indo-European. We would want to reserve
the \et
> field only for the proto-Indo-European form. So there is no field
for the
> other forms. To produce an article like the following would be very
> difficult:
> 
>  
> 
> yearn v. To have a strong, often melancholy desire. [Middle English
yernen,
> from Old English geornan, giernan. See gher- in Appendix.]
> 
>  
> 
> (Examples adapted from the American Heritage Dictionary.]
> 
>  
> 
> There is no place at all in the system for recording the history of
coined
> words. All that I can suggest is that you use the \et field for all
> discussions of the history of the word. This way the MDF system will
allow
> you to print the information. If you want specific fields for particular
> pieces of information, such as the proto form, then you can set up a
custom
> field for it. Unfortunately you won't be able to print these fields
with the
> MDF system. Here is how I would record the information for your example:
> 
>  
> 
> \lx dakbayan
> 
> 

> 
> \et Coined in the 1930s from fv:DAKong fv:BAYAN `big town'.
> 
>  
> 
> You have to put "fv:" before each word that uses the vernacular
font. If you
> don't have a special vernacular font, then you wouldn't need the
"fv:". The
> MDF manual tells how to change the font or character style within a
field.
> 
>  
> 
> Ron Moe
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>    _____  
> 
> From: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vincent
`Bentong` S.
> Isles
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 2:57 PM
> To: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Lexicog] Query on how to deal with coined words
> 
>  
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I am Bentong Isles, and I am part of a group compiling a dictionary of
> the Cebuano language (ISO 632 code ceb). We are using ToolBox to
> compile our data. In the 1930's Cebuano received a lot of "coined
> words" as "real Cebuano" equivalents for Spanish and English words
> used at that time. For example, instead of "siyudad" for city (from
> Sp. ciudad), Cebuano writers during that time invented "dakbayan",
> from "DAKong BAYAN", which literally means "big town". My question is,
> how do I encode this information in my data file? Does it go into \et?
> 
> Thanks for any help that you can offer.
> 
> --Bentong Isles
> 
>  
> 
> 
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