Secondary entries (was Re: [Lexicog] Query on how to deal with coined words)
Ron Moe
ron_moe at SIL.ORG
Wed Apr 4 19:37:06 UTC 2007
It is very difficult to maintain two identical copies of a subentry. It is
too easy to make a change in one and forget to make it in the other. So we
don't recommend duplicating the entry in the database. It is best to
maintain a single entry and duplicate it as necessary when you are ready to
print.
Generally we recommend that complex forms such as derivatives, compounds,
and phrases be presented in a published dictionary as main entries. The
exception would be if you want to produce a root dictionary. In this case
all complex forms are presented as subentries under the root. Some
lexicographers like to present complex forms as main entries, but also
cross-reference them to the root. Using the \cf field as you suggest below
is a way to achieve this. The other way is maintain the complex forms as
main entries, but also create minor subentries under the root using the \se
field. If you use MDF to print your dictionary, the two strategies will
print differently.
If you want phrases to be formatted as subentries, then you have to decide
whether they will appear under all the roots, just some of the roots, or
just one root. If you want a phrase to appear under more than one root,
there are two ways to accomplish it with Shoebox/Toolbox: (1) Maintain the
phrase as a subentry (using the \se field) under one root. Then when you are
ready to print, copy the subentry into each of the other roots. (2) Maintain
the phrase as a main entry. Then when you are ready to print, transform the
phrase entry into a subentry, duplicate it for each root, and place the
copies under each root. There are ways to automate each approach, but they
aren't easy.
The FieldWorks program requires you to set up a separate entry in the
database for each complex form. But it also allows you to link each complex
form to its root(s). Then when it comes time to print, you can specify if
you want the complex forms to be formatted as main entries, subentries, or
both. So FieldWorks is a "smarter" program and provides more options.
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vincent `Bentong` S.
Isles
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 2:46 AM
To: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Secondary entries (was Re: [Lexicog] Query on how to deal with
coined words)
Hi Ron,
Thanks for the extended help :) That gives me an idea of what approach
to take regarding that problem.
I am also unsure of my approach regarding secondary entries. I would
have wanted related phrases to be entered as secondary entries under
the headwords they are composed of, like this:
\lx puti
...
\se puti og itlog
...
But I realize I also need to put the same secondary entry under other
entry or entries:
\lx puti
...
\se puti og itlog
...
\lx itlog
...
\se puti og itlog
...
This means I will have to update (at least) two parts of the file if
in case I need to change s.t. on the \se field. So what I am doing is
to put the secondary entry as a full entry in its own right:
\lx puti
...
\cf puti og itlog
\lx itlog
...
\cf puti og itlog
\lx puti og itlog
...
\cf puti
\cf itlog
Is this acceptable? Thanks in advance!
---Bentong Isles
--- In lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com
<mailto:lexicographylist%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ron Moe" <ron_moe at ...> wrote:
>
> The etymology section of a dictionary article is the place for all
> information on a word's history, including (1) words that have a
continuous
> history in the language straight from the original proto language,
(2) words
> that have been borrowed, both from related languages and unrelated
> languages, (3) words that were coined, either by adapting existing
words or
> by making up a completely new word. The history of a word can be very
> involved with numerous attested archaic forms and with a history of
> borrowings from language to language. Sometimes it is possible to
determine
> the approximate date at which a word was borrowed. Sometimes the
history of
> a word is uncertain. Consequently it is sometimes necessary to
discuss the
> history of a word in sentence format. Unfortunately the database
structure
> of Toolbox and the fields used by MDF do not facilitate involved
> discussions. Instead they were designed to handle specific pieces of
> information. These are the fields available:
>
>
>
> \bw Borrowed word. Used for denoting the source language of a
borrowed word.
>
> \et Etymology. The etymology for the lexeme is put here, e.g.: \et
*babuy
>
> \eg Etymology gloss. The published gloss for the etymological
reference is
> given here.
>
> \ec Etymology comment. Any comments the researcher needs to add
concerning
> the etymology of the lexeme can be given here. Not intended for
printing.
>
> \es Etymology source. The reference or source abbreviation for
etymology of
> the lexeme is given here. Use a Range Set.
>
>
>
> This system works OK if all you want to do is indicate the source
language
> of a borrowed word or the proto form of an inherited word. But there are
> problems with the system:
>
>
>
> \bw This is only designed for the language name. If you want to also
> indicate the form, there is no easy way to do this. You can combine the
> language name and form in the same field, but you may have to use
different
> fonts for the two. It is difficult (but not impossible) to combine
two fonts
> in the same field. If you want to record a succession of borrowings, you
> would have to put everything into this one field. To produce an
article like
> the following would be difficult:
>
>
>
> grace n. Seemingly effortless beauty or charm of movement, form, or
> proportion. [Middle English, from Old French, from Latin gra:tia, from
> gra:tus, pleasing. See gwere- in Appendix].
>
>
>
> If you are using the same font for the source language name and the
form of
> the word, you can combine them in the \bw field:
>
>
>
> \lx siyudad
>
> \bw Spanish: ciudad
>
>
>
> \et This field is designed for just the reconstructed proto form. It
would
> normally be used for the form in the proto-language. The field was not
> designed for indicating successive stages in a word's history. If
you want
> to use the field for just the proto form, you can't also use it for a
> discussion of successive stages. For instance in English we often
want to
> indicate the form of the word in Middle English, Old English,
> proto-Germanic, and proto-Indo-European. We would want to reserve
the \et
> field only for the proto-Indo-European form. So there is no field
for the
> other forms. To produce an article like the following would be very
> difficult:
>
>
>
> yearn v. To have a strong, often melancholy desire. [Middle English
yernen,
> from Old English geornan, giernan. See gher- in Appendix.]
>
>
>
> (Examples adapted from the American Heritage Dictionary.]
>
>
>
> There is no place at all in the system for recording the history of
coined
> words. All that I can suggest is that you use the \et field for all
> discussions of the history of the word. This way the MDF system will
allow
> you to print the information. If you want specific fields for particular
> pieces of information, such as the proto form, then you can set up a
custom
> field for it. Unfortunately you won't be able to print these fields
with the
> MDF system. Here is how I would record the information for your example:
>
>
>
> \lx dakbayan
>
> …
>
> \et Coined in the 1930s from fv:DAKong fv:BAYAN `big town'.
>
>
>
> You have to put "fv:" before each word that uses the vernacular
font. If you
> don't have a special vernacular font, then you wouldn't need the
"fv:". The
> MDF manual tells how to change the font or character style within a
field.
>
>
>
> Ron Moe
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com
<mailto:lexicographylist%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com
<mailto:lexicographylist%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Vincent
`Bentong` S.
> Isles
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 2:57 PM
> To: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com
<mailto:lexicographylist%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Lexicog] Query on how to deal with coined words
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I am Bentong Isles, and I am part of a group compiling a dictionary of
> the Cebuano language (ISO 632 code ceb). We are using ToolBox to
> compile our data. In the 1930's Cebuano received a lot of "coined
> words" as "real Cebuano" equivalents for Spanish and English words
> used at that time. For example, instead of "siyudad" for city (from
> Sp. ciudad), Cebuano writers during that time invented "dakbayan",
> from "DAKong BAYAN", which literally means "big town". My question is,
> how do I encode this information in my data file? Does it go into \et?
>
> Thanks for any help that you can offer.
>
> --Bentong Isles
>
>
>
>
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