[Lexicog] ANOTHER OPTION

[Jimm GoodTracks]

Jan:
I am sorry then, I simply did not know.  I do know that Justin was influenced in the IDD selection via Linda C, who he presently works with at Kaw under an ANA grant.  It seems she wrote the Manuel for the IDD program I understand, and is the one who is primarily responsible for compiling their Kaw Lexicon.
Perhaps, you might make a commentary for the Lex-group folks, so that others like myself who are unaware of the maze do not devote lost time to checking into it.  I also know Parks relies on his team of IU PC Techs, and allows them to work a resolve to his requests.  I guess in this case, the techs got carried away with their imaginary and creativeness.
I suppose my lesson is to not pass on tips and information on anything I don't know about first hand.
Jimm  

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jan Ullrich 
  To: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 2:30 PM
  Subject: RE: [Lexicog] ANOTHER OPTION



  Jim,



  I am familiar with the IDD software and I would not recommend it. 

  It doesn't do half the things that Toolbox can do, both in regard to database issues and export. 

  And it is not flexible at all.

  Justin below says that "it's a big and complicated program as far as editing is concerned, with maybe twenty or more tables associated with each entry."

  I can't but agree with this statement. To create an entry the user has to go through a large number of dialog boxes which can only be reached via mouse (not keyboard) and fill the data in those boxes. In Toolbox, on the other hand, one can create an entry using a single keystroke and fill it in by simply typing. 

  At the same time I am aware there are programs that are more user-friendly and easier to learn than Toolbox, such as LexiPro, but I don't think IDD is one of them.



  Jan



    -----Original Message-----
    From: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com [mailto:lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jimm GoodTracks
    Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 6:43 PM
    To: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [Lexicog] ANOTHER OPTION



    I thought that I would share another option for Dictionary software programs specific for indigenous languages.  I personally am acquainted with Doug Parks and Raymond Demallie at Indiana University, and the high quality of their expertise and materials.  I thought the Lexi-group would be interested in part, of the discussion I have recently had with the Kaw (Kansa) Nation Language Program Director.  He states:  

    The program we have been using to develop the expanded Kaw dictionary is the Indiana Dictionary Database, from the American Indian Studies Research Institute at Indiana University (http://www.indiana.edu/~aisri/projects/idd/idd.shtml).    It's a big and complicated program as far as editing is concerned, with maybe twenty or more tables associated with each entry.  The on-board search engine is the best way to navigate through it, but there is also a "combo screen" view that allows you to browse through the entries at a glance, either from English to Kaw or Kaw to English.  

    That said, anytime we feel the database is "full enough" to fill some need in the community, we can export all the material into other formats for the purpose of producing a simpler user's dictionary.  We did one of those last summer.  It's a very bare-bones English to Kaw dictionary book file.  You can download the .pdf at http://www.kawnation.com/WebKanza/LangResources/nglshknzdctnry.pdf.  I think most entries in this version have the English entry, any related Kaw glosses, and grammatical class (part of speech), and that's it.

    (Later)   the examples and paradigmatic forms, we'll print another version that will offer more information, and will be searchable by ANY word that happens to appear anywhere in the entry form.  So, let's say you know the word kóⁿbla, but can't remember that it's the 1st Singular/ "I" form of the verb góⁿya, 'to want.'  You'll be able to search for kóⁿbla, and it will turn up as a paradigmatic form for góⁿya under the English entry 'want.'

    I think this is the crux of the discussion you sent:  Editing and use are separate considerations.  I think if you're using a special program like IDD, Shoebox/Toolbox, or D-Base , then you're really working on the editing side, and you'll have very different concerns and approaches than the end users of the product will have.  You may in fact need to worry about special parsers and inflectional/ derivational concerns from time to time, as the discussion participants brought up.  You'll need to worry about back-and-forth indexing, repeated/ redundant entries, integrity of parallel entry forms, etc.  

    End users, on the other hand, will probably want something that looks like every other dictionary on the planet: A book.  Even if you're planning on producing an eBook with all the searching benefits, I would wager that the end users will think of it as just the file-version of a book, essentially an unprinted dictionary manuscript.  Their users' concerns, however, will be addressed during the editing phase with a lot of preliminary planning and work on the part of the editors.  In my kóⁿbla example, for instance, end users will be able to hunt down the meaning of a headword form through the search function provided we do all the legwork well in advance of producing the "end product" dictionary.

    That's my opinion, anyway.
    -Justin


   
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