[Lexicog] palm trees

[Greg and Heather Mellow]

Hi Ron,

I was not thinking of using a vernacular classification because the vernacular I am studying actually seems to have few classification words of levels that I can find. Also, I want my semantic domain list to reflect a likely folk classification of English readers because it will mostly be English readers who access the (English) sematic domain list. I know you do not want an English folk classification. Sorry.

In my own English folk classification, coconuts and dates can be classified as trees, but a 2 metre palm cannot be classified as a tree because it is too small. I do not classify palms with short trunks and huge fronds as trees, so I use the term palm. As soon as I admit that palms are a kind of plant (along side trees, bushes, grasses & herbs) I am inclined to reclassify coconut trees and date trees as coconut palms and date palms.

My most basic plant classification is tree, bush, grass, and (non-descript) 'plant'.
If I disambiguate more carefully I have tree, bush, grass, 'plant', vine, fern, palm, cactus.
If pushed, I will disambiguate herbs and moss from the list.

At a different level I distinguish between vegetables and fruits vs. other plants, but that is another issue.

If there were about eight plant classifications for English readers, I would perhaps include tree, bush, grass, herb/small plant, vine, fern, palm, cactus. However you do not want an English folk classification. 

I wonder how a semantic domain list can serve the hundreds, perhaps thousands of folk classification systems? A thorough semantic domain list is very useful as a starting point, but how does it interact with specific folk classification? 

When producing an English semantic domain list on a vernacular language, should the list reflect the folk classification of the vernacular language culture, or the English reader?

I have no real answers yet. What do you think?

Regards, Greg

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Ronald Moe 
  To: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:49 AM
  Subject: [Lexicog] palm trees





  Someone has asked me for help in classifying "palm trees" in my list of
  semantic domains. If you have palm trees in your area, are they classified
  as "trees" or as a separate category of plant? Science is not a reliable
  guide to ethno-semantic classification. So please don't give me a scientific
  answer or an English-based answer. I've pasted in below the guidance that I
  gave the person who asked me the question.

  Thanks,
  Ron Moe

  @@@@@@@

  Ask the people to give you a hierarchical set of categories for the plants.
  "What kind of plants are there?" If they give 'tree' as one type of plant
  then ask, "What kinds of trees are there?" If 'palm' is given as a type of
  plant (or tree), then ask, "What kinds of palms are there?" If there is a
  subcategory for palms, then set up a domain for it and try to place it under
  the correct major domain in the hierarchy. A domain that has 11 members
  should be a separate domain if the people clearly see it as a separate
  group. You can add domains to the DDP list in Toolbox or FLEx.

  Be aware that the hierarchy may be complicated. This is especially true of
  animals where an animal can be classified along a number of parameters (bird
  vs mammal vs reptile vs insect, pet vs domesticated (but not pet) vs wild,
  useful vs vermin, edible vs inedible, carnivorous vs herbivorous vs
  omnivorous, beast of burden vs not, forest dweller vs grassland dweller vs
  water dweller). Some words may have two meanings and can refer to two
  different levels of the hierarchy. For instance 'animal' can contrast with
  'plant' in science, but in non-scientific speech it contrasts with bird and
  fish. So there actually is no simple, straightforward hierarchy. But for
  display purposes in a dictionary it is nice if we can pretend there is. J

  I would be very interested in any classification system you develop. I'm
  always looking for evidence that shows where I need to adjust my domains. We
  call palms "palm trees". But that doesn't mean most languages view them as a
  subcategory of tree. My problem with the plants is that there is no good
  basis for subcategorizing them. Science is too, well, scientific to be of
  much use in determining how cultures view the world. I'm more interested in
  ethnic semantics and folk classification systems. Words are funny things.
  Tell me where "undergrowth" fits in a scientific classification system.

  I hope this helps. You should read my article (available for download from
  the DDP website ftp://ftp.sil.org/software/win/ddp/doc/
  ddp4_emic_domains.doc) on emic domains.



  
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