Proposed charter schools include all-boys Latin prep

Fri Oct 21 17:06:01 UTC 2005

As a lurker on this valuable list, I do have two more cents...

To talk about "charter schools" is like talking about "birds."  There is VERY little that all of the thousands of species of birds have in common.

There are public charters at the level of an individual school district (and remembering that an entity such as New York City comprises a single district) and thus subject to all of the regulations and mandates that any other public school is subject to and which may or may not be funded (entirely or in part) by public tax levies through either the school district or the state.  

There are public charters at the level of the state which may or may not belong to a given school district and which may or may not be directed immediately by and/or responsible directly to a state-level agency AND which may or may not be released from (some or all) of the relevant state regulations and mandates and which may or may not be funded (entirely or in part) by public tax levies.

There are purely independent schools which can call themselves charter schools...

It is totally nonsurprising that the evidence is mixed, if not totally jumbled and inconsistent.  There are no conclusions possible. 

Assessing "charter schools" is like assessing "schools;" it ignores the fact that there are superb charter schools and horrible charter schools.  The average is meaningless; it is necessary rather to look at the superb examples and see what makes them tick.

(My feeling is that the only absolutely critical factor is the individual teacher and administrator--and mostly the former.  Education is about that individual relationship and almost ONLY that.  For a reasonable and reasoned view of what else seems to matter, look at the materials from New Visions at www.newvisions.org.)

Larry Krute

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Rachel R. Reynolds" <rrr28 at drexel.edu>
Reply-To: lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu
Date:  Fri, 21 Oct 2005 06:58:51 -0400

>Can't read this any longer without tossing in my two cents.
>
>Because they receive things like block grants, charter schools notoriously 
>leave negotiations about salary, benefits, workday hours, contract perks, 
>etc. to the individual Principals and their Teachers.  It is much better 
>from a teacher's perspective to be working for a normal public 
>(systematically state-funded) school at least for earnings and job 
>security.  Meanwhile, those same charter Principals (and teachers) are run 
>utterly ragged trying to substitute as individuals for the support of 
>entire institutions in the regular system.  An individual simply can only 
>be as good as a massive Superintendent's office for so long.  Fewer 
>administrative assistants, fewer (if any) social workers, literacy 
>specialists, speech pathologists, etc., even fewer janitors or school 
>nurses, less money for facilities maintenance, and so forth.
>
>I can't help but wonder if it'll eventually evolve into collapsing schools 
>that won't be funded for revival.  I.E., it may all be part of a 
>semi-conscious move to systematically underfund public services in our 
>neo-neoliberal state.
>
>At any rate, Latin has virtually nothing to do with it.
>
>Rachel
>
>At 05:27 AM 10/21/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>>Overall a study in Texas shows that charter schools do not do as well as 
>>non-charter schools:  Lower test scores and higher drop out rates, 
>>astronomical (79%) teacher turn over rates.
>>fb
>>
>>________________________________
>>
>>From: owner-lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu on behalf of Anthea Fraser Gupta
>>Sent: Fri 10/21/2005 2:10 AM
>>To: lgpolicy-list at ccat.sas.upenn.edu
>>Subject: RE: Proposed charter schools include all-boys Latin prep
>>
>>
>>I gather from Hal that the US charter schools are very much like a similar 
>>initiative in the UK, usually known as 'city colleges' (usually for 11-18 
>>year olds). These have private sponshorship, but are state (i.e. 
>>government-run =US public) schools and are free. Controversially, many of 
>>them have been sponsored by a Christian businessman who has introduced the 
>>teaching of creationism. One of the earliest was sponsored by BAT (I don't 
>>think they promoted smoking). They are usually located in poor areas, and 
>>often replace schools with low results. They are supposed to admit a cross 
>>section of students and generally offer stricter discipline, smaller 
>>classes, and often a specialist focus. The idea about Latin doesn't seem 
>>to have reached the UK (the languages promoted are usually French and 
>>Spanish, and many of them promote technology, business studies, or sport).
>>
>>HOWEVER, there is considerable parental selection of these schools, and 
>>they also expel ('exclude' in the UK) more students than other schools in 
>>the same city, and for more trivial reasons. This means that the social 
>>composition of the city colleges is not the same as the social composition 
>>of the area in which they are located. They do not seem to benefit the 
>>most disadvantaged children in the place in which they are located. I 
>>gather the charter schools have similar issues. This is something that we 
>>would need to look at in Philadelphia to see whether they do serve the 
>>poorest people in the area.
>>
>>This is the elitism problem. I am sure we all want excellence in 
>>education. But the danger of increasing selection in state schools is that 
>>the excellence will be delivered to those whose parents have the drive and 
>>interest to get it for their children. This does not break patterns of 
>>deprivation being passed down the generations.
>>
>>I don't have a solution of course! But LATIN???  and, yes, BOYS??? This is 
>>a return to the nineteenth century. And Latin as an immunisation or 
>>something???? Languages should be learnt for themselves, not for something 
>>else. The best languages to learn are the ones you have most chance of 
>>using, surely. What other languages do they study? Spanish? Arabic?
>>
>>[I'm not against Latin. I went to a selective school myself (not something 
>>I think is right now) where we all did French, then the next year the top 
>>half of the school could do another language (I did German) and then after 
>>another year we could take another (I did Latin then). I also did New 
>>Testament Greek later at lunchtime.... I wouldn't promote this for 
>>everyone (and I failed chemistry, which I regret now). And one of my best 
>>friends teaches Latin and Greek. ]
>>
>>  Bu the idea that Latin (or ASL, or any single language or subject) is 
>> THE solution? No.
>>
>>Anthea
>
>

--
Dr. Laurence Krute
Associate  Dean--Graduate Advising
School of Education
Manhattanville College
2900 Purchase Street Purchase, NY  10577
voice:914 323-5141
fax:914 323-5493
--