A-only agreement

[Paul Hopper]

Dear David,

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I guess I don't understand your
distinction. You seem to be admitting that prefixal di- "is used only with
third person agents" yet you say it does not "bear third person features".
Would it be possible for an affix to "be used only with third person
agents" and yet NOT "bear third person features"? Does the English verb
suffix -s "bear third person features"?

For the record: That in Classical Malay, transitive clauses having the
verbal di- prefix also have a third person agent is not "my" analysis,
it's the canonical one. See, e.g., recently, van den Berg 2004. The uses
of this prefix in other kinds of Malay/Indonesian aren't at issue here.

- Paul


R. van den Berg, "Some notes on the origin of Malay di-" Bijdragen tot de
Taal-, Land- en Volkenkunde 160 (2004), no: 4, Leiden, 532-554)



On Sat, September 19, 2009 10:14, David Gil wrote:
> Dear all,
>
>
> I think it's only fair to point out that Paul's analysis of the Malay
> sentences below as involving verbal agreement with a transitive agent is
> dependent on the assumption that the prefix di- bears 3rd person features
> -- an assumption that many have questioned (even in those
> somewhat idealized varieties of Malay in which the prefix di- is used only
> with 3rd person agents).
>
> David
>
>
>> Dear Peter,
>>
>>
>> I have argued (references below) for "discourse split ergativity" (John
>>  Verhaar's term) in traditional Malay narrative such that precisely the
>>  distribution that you describe occurs in certain narrative
>> environments. Examples from texts:
>>
>>
>> di-ambil  oleh pawang sedikit batang pisang
   3:ERG-take ERG magician some stalk  banana "The elephant-magician took
a piece of banana stalk"
>>
>>
>> di-ambil-nya surat itu, di-renong-nya, kemudian di-letokkan-nya
>> 3:ERG-take-3AGT letter the, 3:ERG-stare-3AGT, then 3ERG-put-3AGT
>> "He took the letter, stared at it, and then put it down."
>>
>>
>> ku-bilang gajah itu
   I:ERG-count elephant the
>> "I counted the elephants"
>>
>>
>> datang-lah se-orang orang muda come-EVENT a (classf) man young "a young
>> man came"
>>
>> So the transitive agent has the preposition oleh if a noun, or a
>> special verbal clitic if a pronoun, while absolutives (intransitive
>> subjects and objects) have no marker on the NP, and have independent
>> forms (aku "I", ia/dia "3rd sg.") if pronouns.
>>
>> The verb has the prefix di- if the transitive agent is 3rd person,
>> whether noun or pronoun. Transitive agents that are pronouns have
>> special forms that are clitic to the verb (1/2 are proclitic, 3 is
>> enclitic). S and O show no agreement with the verb.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------
>>
>>
>> Paul J. Hopper, 1987 “Stability and change in VN/NV Alternating
>> Languages:
>> A study in pragmatics and linguistic typology.” In M. Bertuccelli Papi
>> and J.Verscheuren, eds., The Pragmatic Perspective, 455-476. Amsterdam:
>> John
>> Benjamins.
>>
>>
>> Paul J. Hopper, 1983 “Ergative, passive, and active in Malay narrative
>> discourse.” In F. Klein-Andreu, ed., Discourse Perspectives on Syntax,
>> 64-87. New York: Academic Press.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, September 19, 2009 07:30, peterarkadiev wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Dear typologists,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> do you know of languages where the verb would agree exclusively with
>>> the transitive agent (A), but neither with P nor with S? It seems to
>>> me that I have come across such systems, but I cannot recall any
>>> particular details. By the way, if per chance someone knows of
>>> agreement systems where both transitive A and P are cross-referenced
>>> but S is not, this example would be highly appreciated, too.
>>>
>>> Many thanks in advance!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter Arkadiev
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Эмоциональная почта наÑ
одится здесь:
>>> http://mail.yandex.ru/promo/new/emotions
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> David Gil
>
>
> Department of Linguistics
> Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
> Deutscher Platz 6, D-04103 Leipzig, Germany
>
>
> Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550119
> Email: gil at eva.mpg.de
> Webpage:  http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Prof. Dr. Paul J. Hopper
Senior Fellow
Freiburg Institute for Advanced Studies
Albert-Ludwigs-Universität Freiburg
Albertstr. 19
D-79104 Freiburg
and
Paul Mellon Distinguished Professor of Humanities
Department of English
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213