Hindi-Urdu conversational styles/exchange patterns

[Everett, Daniel]

I agree, Nick. I will take what I can get on this, apparently nothing for the particular case, but the really essential bit is to see the kind of study you cite for a variety of otherwise linguistically close, but culturally diverging dialects or speech communities.

Dan

On Aug 14, 2013, at 3:30 PM, Nick Enfield wrote:

> It would be great if there were solid empirical work on turn and sequence
> organisation in speech varieties such as these. Many have described their
> impressions of 'turn-taking' in various varieties, but where this question
> has been systematically tested, what seemed to be giant differences turn
> out to be subtle variations in 'calibration' of the same underlying
> system; see Stivers et al (2009). "Universals and cultural variation in
> turn-taking in conversation." PNAS, 106 (26), 10587-10592. It's worth
> distinguishing turn-taking in a technical sense from other matters of
> conversational style.
> Nick
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/14/13 8:20 PM, "Mike Morgan" <mwmbombay at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
>> Dan,
>> 
>> then I assume, as hinted at in previous email, the most likely
>> prospect for finding differences in dialoguic language (i.e.
>> differences in turn-taking strategies, etc as you mentioned) would be
>> differences between the Urdu of Pakistan and the Hindi of India.
>> 
>> In India -- I have lived in both Mumbai (a VERY multilingual city) and
>> Delhi (more or less a Hindi+English speaking city -- though granted
>> some Punjabi is still heard, but much less than before, and even most
>> Sikhs speak Hindi most the time nowadays), and although I spend most
>> of my time (work and play) with Deaf and thus Sign Language users, I
>> have still had considerable contact with speakers who would
>> self-describe themselve as both Hindi and Urdu speakers. But, aside
>> from a certain greater tendency to use insh'allah as an additional
>> future marker (i.e. in ALL positive future statments) by Muslims, and
>> a few of the lexical differences which I am sure you know about, I
>> have noticed nothing different. Which of course is just anecdotal
>> evidence. PLUS, of course, I don't hang around with Indians who would
>> be described as being predominantly non-secular quite as much, and I
>> myself clearly belong to NEITHER group. so there may be more
>> differences in intra-communal discourse.
>> 
>> BUT again I am not aware of any such studies... BUT your question has
>> piqued my interest as well, so I will now defintiely be on the look
>> out ;-)
>> 
>> On 8/14/13, Everett, Daniel <DEVERETT at bentley.edu> wrote:
>>> Mike,
>>> 
>>> Thanks. Yes, I am aware that they are the same language. When I taught
>>> at U
>>> of Manchester, I regularly assigned intro students to interview folks
>>> on the
>>> "curry mile" about Hindi and Urdu. The language attitudes vary quite a
>>> bit.
>>> 
>>> However, now that the cultures are diverging I am interested in exactly
>>> those "stylistic" differences. Though they are mutually intelligible,
>>> are
>>> different strategies occuring for dialogue in different contexts,
>>> especially
>>> contexts that exist in one cultural context but not another?
>>> 
>>> I did not want to prime my question in any way, hence it could have
>>> given
>>> the impression that I wasn't aware of the well-known fact that they are
>>> the
>>> same language.
>>> 
>>> I am interest in variable rates of shift for culture and language and
>>> how
>>> one can come to affect the other.
>>> 
>>> Dan
>>> 
>>> Everett, Daniel. in progress. Dark matter of the mind. University of
>>> Chicago
>>> Press.
>>> 
>>> On Aug 14, 2013, at 1:51 PM, Mike Morgan wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dan,
>>>> 
>>>> I am not sure you will find anything, since at the conversational
>>>> level they are one and the same language. (and, at least in some parts
>>>> of India -- Mumbai for example -- everyone -- except right wing Hindu
>>>> fanatics -- will admit that the purist Hindi speakers are the
>>>> Muslims... because "pakka" Hindi = Urdu).
>>>> 
>>>> Differences only come into play at "higher" stylistic levels... and
>>>> when politics comes into play (i.e there may well be a LOT of
>>>> differences in speeched of Hindu "fundamentalist" wing politicians in
>>>> Hindi vs Muslim "fundamentalist" politicians in Urdu. (Also of course
>>>> difference in writing styles... beond the obvious difference ins
>>>> cript.)
>>>> 
>>>> OR, given the 60-some years of separation there might be differences
>>>> at the conversation level between the Hindi-Urdu of India and the Urdu
>>>> of Pakistan.
>>>> 
>>>> BUT, that said, I am unaware of any such contrastive studies off
>>>> hand...
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 8/14/13, Everett, Daniel <DEVERETT at bentley.edu> wrote:
>>>>> I am looking for a study contrasting or comparing conversational (in
>>>>> particular turn-taking) patterns in Hindi vs. Urdu.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dan
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> mwm || *U*C> || mike || माईक || мика || マイク (aka Dr Michael W Morgan)
>>>> sign language linguist / linguistic typologist
>>>> academic adviser, Nepal Sign Language Training and Research
>>>> NDFN, Kathmandu, Nepal
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> mwm || *U*C> || mike || माईक || мика || マイク (aka Dr Michael W Morgan)
>> sign language linguist / linguistic typologist
>> academic adviser, Nepal Sign Language Training and Research
>> NDFN, Kathmandu, Nepal
>