query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation

Fri Feb 1 01:54:42 UTC 2013

A relevant paper discusses the use of ‘go’ in Thai for encoding negative outcomes.

Gandour, Jack. 1978a. On the deictic use of verbs of motion come and go in Thai. Anthropological Linguistics 20.9:381-394.

Alec

---

Alexander R. Coupe, Ph.D. | Assistant Professor | Division of Linguistics and Multilingual Studies | Nanyang Technological University
HSS-03-56, 14 Nanyang Avenue, Singapore 637332
Tel: (65) 6592-1567 GMT+8h | Fax: (65) 6795-6525 | Email: arcoupe at ntu.edu.sg<mailto:arcoupe at ntu.edu.sg> | Web: http://www.ntu.edu.sg/HSS/Linguistics<http://www.ntu.edu.sg/HSS/Linguistics/Pages/default.aspx>
Editor
Linguistics of the Tibeto-Burman Area
http://stedt.berkeley.edu/ltba/
ltba.email at gmail.com<mailto:ltba.email at gmail.com>

From: Discussion List for ALT [mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Nigel Vincent
Sent: Friday, 1 February, 2013 7:02 AM
To: LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation

Italian has a passive periphrasis constructed with the verb andare 'go' which can only be used with verbs which express a negative outcome. Thus:

La casa è andata distrutta 'the house was (lit. went) destroyed'
La lettera è andata perduta 'the letter got (went) lost'

but not:
*La casa è andata costruita 'the house went built'
*La lettera è andata trovata 'the house went found'

Nigel

Professor Nigel Vincent, FBA
Professor Emeritus of General & Romance Linguistics
The University of Manchester

Vice-President for Research & HE Policy, The British Academy

Linguistics & English Language
School of Arts, Languages and Cultures
The University of Manchester
Manchester M13 9PL
UK

http://www.llc.manchester.ac.uk/subjects/lel/staff/nigel-vincent/

________________________________________
From: Discussion List for ALT [LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG] on behalf of "Ekkehard König" [koenig at ZEDAT.FU-BERLIN.DE]
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 8:23 PM
To: LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation

I think that Paul Hopper's contribution was completely misunderstood
(assuming he wanted to say what I would like to point out, based on the
observations made by Eve Clark in an old edition of LANGUAGE):

In English the verbs of motion COME and GO do not only express movement
away (go) or towards a center of orientation, but also - in combination
with adjectives (or adverbials)- a movement towards a positive evaluation
(come) and a movement away from a positive evaluation and thus towards a
negative evaluation (go):

COME: alive, to one's senses, true, along, etc.
GO: wild, mad, crazy, out of one's mind, hayfire, off

But this is NEGATIVE evaluation and not NEGATION and thus probably not
what David is looking for.

Ekkehard

> And, "it went beautifully", "it's going beautifully, nicely, rather badly,
> better than expected, ... "
>
> Elena Bashir
>
>
>
>
>
>>________________________________
>> From: Ian Maddieson <ianm at BERKELEY.EDU<mailto:ianm at BERKELEY.EDU>>
>>To: LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG<mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>
>>Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 1:09 PM
>>Subject: Re: query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation
>>
>>
>>... but, on the other hand, "go well", "go swimmingly", and even "go
>> viral"
>>
>>
>>I'm not sure the negativity inheres in "go"
>>
>>
>>Ian
>>
>>
>>On 31 Jan 2013, at 09:10, Paul Hopper wrote:
>>
>>An adjective complement of English 'go' has a negative force, e.g. go
>>>bad, bankrupt, missing, crazy, postal [see
>>>http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/159050.html], but not *cheerful,
>>>*prosperous, etc.
>>>
>>>- French pas?
>>>
>>>Paul Hopper
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Dear David,
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>In Tamazight of Ayr Ndhir the negator of predications of identity
>>>>
>>>appears to be composed of the negative particle/prefix ur and a form
>>>>
>>>of the verb go -idd
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>(Penchoen, 1973: 63)
>>>>
>>>a.ismuryaz-adÌ±ur-iddhÌ£usa
>>>>
>>>thisman-thisNEG-goHusa
>>>>
>>>â€™This manâ€™s name is not Husaâ€™
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>b.ur-iddllÉ™b É›aya
>>>>
>>>NEG-goplaythis
>>>>
>>>â€˜This is no gameâ€™
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>I haven't been able to verify this for other varieties of Tamazight.
>>>>
>>>Generally, it is my impression that this kind of extension is
>>>>
>>>relatively rare but it may be the case that it just hasn't been
>>>>
>>>studied properly. Matthew Juge (1998) has a paper on the overlapping
>>>>
>>>suppletion between the paradigms of ser and ir in Spanish; these verb
>>>>
>>>share the same suppletive form in the preterite . It's true it is the
>>>>
>>>affirmative variants of the verbs but still.
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>Best wishes,
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>Ljuba
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>References
>>>>
>>>Juge, Matthew. 1998. On the Rise of Suppletion in Verbal Paradigms. Ms.,
>>>>
>>>BLS 25.
>>>>
>>>Penchoen, Thomas G. 1973. Tamazight of the Ayt Ndhir. Los Angeles:
>>>>
>>>Undena Publications.
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Everett, Daniel <DEVERETT at bentley.edu<mailto:DEVERETT at bentley.edu>>
>>>>
>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>In PirahÃ£, David, the relevant construction is:
>>>>>
>>>hi-ab-Ã¡o-b-Ã¡
>>>>>
>>>it-negative-completive-perfective-remote (out of control of speaker)
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>hi-ab-a (without aspectual morphology) is used for 'no' or 'didn't'
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>The former has the sense of 'to have run out' but is very similar in
>>>>>
>>>many contexts to 'allgone.'
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>-- Dan
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>On Jan 31, 2013, at 6:53 AM, Hewitt, Stephen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>Hello David,
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>In Breton, yes.
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>Aed eo toud
>>>>>>
>>>Gone is3sg all
>>>>>>
>>>"it's all gone"
>>>>>>
>>>With the same meaning as in English. In French you have to use the verb
>>>>>>
>>>"partir" = leave, not "aller" = go.
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>Best,
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>Steve
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>Steve Hewitt
>>>>>>
>>>30 rue Charles Baudelaire
>>>>>>
>>>75012 PARIS
>>>>>>
>>>France
>>>>>>
>>>s.hewitt at unesco.org<mailto:s.hewitt at unesco.org>
>>>>>>
>>>+33/-0 1.45.68.06.08 work
>>>>>>
>>>+33/-0 6.32.13.79.42 mobile
>>>>>>
>>>+33/-0 1.46.28.89.16 home
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>
>>>From: Discussion List for ALT
>>>>>>
>>>[mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG]<mailto:[mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG]> On Behalf Of David Gil
>>>>>>
>>>Sent: 31 January 2013 05:30
>>>>>>
>>>To: LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG<mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>
>>>>>>
>>>Subject: query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>Dear all,
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>In English motherese, the expression 'allgone' is often used to express
>>>>>>
>>>a negative concept involving the disappearance or absence of an entity
>>>>>>
>>>previously present.
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>I am interested in ascertaining how common or rare it is,
>>>>>>
>>>cross-linguistically, for a verb of motion (eg. 'go') or location (eg.
>>>>>>
>>>'be in') to undergo extension of meaning, or grammaticalization, to
>>>>>>
>>>express various negative concepts, as in the above 'allgone' example.
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>The reason behind this query is as follows. In Roon (an Austronesian
>>>>>>
>>>language of West Papua), the same verb has a range of meanings which
>>>>>>
>>>includes 'be in' and 'disappear'. (The logic behind this would seem to
>>>>>>
>>>be that if something goes or is located somewhere else, then it is no
>>>>>>
>>>longer here.) In addition, the stem on which this verb is based is
>>>>>>
>>>also used to form negative imperatives. I am currently trying to
>>>>>>
>>>figure out whether to analyze this in terms of macrofunctionality,
>>>>>>
>>>polysemy, or accidental homophony, so whether similar patterns are
>>>>>>
>>>attested cross-linguistically would be of relevance to the choice of
>>>>>>
>>>analysis.
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>Looking forward to any responses,
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>David
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>--
>>>>>>
>>>David Gil
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>Department of Linguistics
>>>>>>
>>>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology Deutscher Platz 6,
>>>>>>
>>>D-04103 Leipzig, Germany
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550119
>>>>>>
>>>Email: gil at eva.mpg.de<mailto:gil at eva.mpg.de>
>>>>>>
>>>Webpage: http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Paul J. Hopper,
>>>Paul Mellon Distinguished Professor of Humanities Emeritus,
>>>Dietrich College of Humanities and Social Sciences,
>>>Carnegie Mellon University,
>>>Pittsburgh, PA 15213,
>>>Tel. 412-683-1109,
>>>Fax 412-268-7989.
>>>
>>>Adjunct Professor of Linguistics,
>>>Department of Linguistics,
>>>University of Pittsburgh.
>>>
>>>Senior External Fellow,
>>>School of Linguistics and Literature,
>>>Freiburg Institute for Advanced Studies (FRIAS),
>>>Freiburg i.Br., Germany
>>>
>>
>>Ian Maddieson
>>
>>
>>Department of Linguistics
>>University of New Mexico
>>MSC03-2130
>>Albuquerque NM 87131-0001
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

________________________________
CONFIDENTIALITY:This email is intended solely for the person(s) named and may be confidential and/or privileged.If you are not the intended recipient,please delete it,notify us and do not copy,use,or disclose its content.

Towards A Sustainable Earth:Print Only When Necessary.Thank you.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20130201/0bad93d4/attachment.htm>